TargetTalk

I know every pistol is different, BUT, what works best for you? It is a place for me to start anyway. Factory? Pet loads? Thanks a bunch, Dwaine Hurt

Remington or Winchester .45-230 FMJ over 4.8 grains of WST works for me.

Back when the CMP (or was it still the DCM then?) required factory loads, I used the Federal American Eagle .45 hardball. Most lots of military match hardball also shot very well in my pistol.

Atlanta Arms, TZZ Israeli Military Industries, and Winchester all worked well for my LBC Hardball.

I had a Les Baer hardball, and got sub 3'' @ 50 yds ransom rest tested with 5 gr of VihtaVuori 320 and the Sierra 23o fmj. factory american eagle 45 230 fmj was good too and did 4'' groups

Three and 4" groups won't cut it for the leg match or the Presidents 100. 11/2 to 2" groups are what you are competing against on the line at Perry at 50yds. Both my wad and ball guns were hand built in the 90's. My wad gun cuts a little over an inch and the ball gun shoots 11/2" with Lake City issue ammo. I was wondering how well the Les Baer and Ed Brown 1911's shot and this is the first ransom rest report I've heard about, with any of these guns.
Chris

Levergun59 wrote:Three and 4" groups won't cut it for the leg match or the Presidents 100.

Totally wrong, The 10 ring is 3,3/8'' so any gun capable of that can win any competition in the right hand, best i remember there were no perfect scores in the P100 or leg matches at perry this year. As for ransome rest tests with the Les Baer i did that with home loaded ammo, federal match shot less than 2'' which is extremely good for 230 FMJ bullet. I never owned a ed brown since he builds defense pistols not target ones.

I guess I have to disagree. Let us say that it was a 5 or 10 shot group that you tested, then the more you shoot for groups enlarges the group. It is a statistical certainty. Thirty rounds into the match, your groups are already larger than 3-4 inches. Your leaking points and you haven't even touched the gun. Brian Zins used to shoot an Aikman barreled High Standard that would easily shoot under an inch. He shot quite a few hundreds at 50 yds That is cause he could hold the 10 ring inside of his guns wildest shot. Just my opinion
Chris

Thanks for the inputs! I agree that tighter groups are better, but I will be OK shooting a 3" gun until I start hitting a bunch of 97+ targets. I am sure at 25 yards I will be fine. I am going the Les Baer route because I rarely shoot hardball and the Les Baer is going to shoot better than what I have. Thanks again for the comments and load data. I can give these a start and see what happens in my pistol. Dwaine

Sorry about this, we seem to have shied away from your original question. In your shoes, I would call up a recommended gunsmith and ask what flavor of gun he likes to build, then I would buy just a stock pistol with target sights. It might not be a world beater, but it would be a learning platform that you could practice with and shoot leagues. Your initial investment would be much less than a Les Baer. Remember, when your gunsmith accurizes your 45, he is going to throw away the barrel, bushing, barrel link, trigger, hammer, firing pin and spring, mainspring housing spring, ect, ect. He will gut your pistol. So a cheap outlay of cash initially would be your best bet. Also don't be afraid to get the best instruction you can possibly get. I went through a few teachers and each time I had to relearn just about everything, with a corresponding initial dip in my scores. My last teaching was at Perry. I attended Small Arms Firing School my first year at Perry, and the teacher was Bill Blankenship among others, then after each days competition I attended coaching school. My final teacher was a Marine Marksmenship Unit instructor. I had to change up everything again, but it was my final training. Don't be afraid to go to Perry and learn it right the first time. If you stay on base, it is a cheap vacation. Three nights at the four man barracks for me and my son was $66.00. Meals at the mess were cheap, and industry row is a great learning experience. Hope this helps.
Chris

I thought we were talking guns capability's, and i did not even factor in the added .94 inches you get in addition to the 3 3/8 10 ring bull for a .452 bullet touching the 10 ring to a 10, that gives a area of of over 4.25 inches so any gun capable of shooting a 4inch group could in the right hands shoot a perfect score. Is it better to have a 1.5'' gun, sure do you need it to do well no, the rest lies with the shooter.

Yes, the gun could theroretically shoot a perfect score, but it would be a miracle. Sooner or later an outside shot will stray 2" to the left as you release the shot with your wobble to the left, or up or down. It's an easy 9 or an 8. I figure for most mortal shooters, they have a wobble from 8 ring to 8 ring with 90% of the shots falling in the 9, 10 and X ring. I have shot a 96 slow fire in the leg match with my hardball gun. I don't think that would be possible with a 4" grouping gun. I have also shot a 100 with my Aikman barreled 22 at Bristol and that gun shoots under an inch at 50yds. I think that you would be lucky to break 90 with a gun with a 4" dispersion. Just my opinion.
Chris

Levergun59 wrote:Yes, the gun could theroretically shoot a perfect score, but it would be a miracle. Sooner or later an outside shot will stray 2" to the left as you release the shot with your wobble to the left, or up or down. It's an easy 9 or an 8. I figure for most mortal shooters, they have a wobble from 8 ring to 8 ring with 90% of the shots falling in the 9, 10 and X ring. I have shot a 96 slow fire in the leg match with my hardball gun. I don't think that would be possible with a 4" grouping gun. I have also shot a 100 with my Aikman barreled 22 at Bristol and that gun shoots under an inch at 50yds. I think that you would be lucky to break 90 with a gun with a 4" dispersion. Just my opinion.
Chris

If you can shoot a 90 at 50 yds. in a leg match, you will leg.

Jim

If you shoot a 90 slow fire target, a 90 in timed fire and then choke out a 75 in rapid fire, your odds of getting leg points aren't very good. If you shoot an 85, 95, and 90, your odds are much better.

The point is... long line accuracy is important, but it's far from the only thing to worry about. You can get points and even win leg matches with a pistol and ammo combination that will "only" shoot 3" groups from a Ransom rest.

Once you have your pistol, get some Sierra bullets and a fast powder and experiment with loads around 800 feet per second. You should be fine.

Out of curiosity, how much do you have to pay to get a great hardball gun, what kind groups do they shoot, and what kind of wait time is typical? Thanks, Dwaine

Dave Santurri in Massachusetts usually turns them around in under a month. (At least he did for me)

It's been ten years since he did my hardball gun, so the price I paid is not relevant, plus I don't remember anyway. It shot under three inches at 50 yards when new, I haven't tested it since. My scores are directly proportional to my training time.

hurt wrote:Out of curiosity, how much do you have to pay to get a great hardball gun, what kind groups do they shoot, and what kind of wait time is typical? Thanks, Dwaine

The "great hardball gun" out there runs around $1700 for a EIC legal 1911. Best anyone would guarantee is 3" groups at 50 yards with a 230gr FMJ. This is partly the reason why I chose the M9. A 115gr FMJ at 50 yards out of my MCP M9 shoots about an inch, and fast recovery on the rapid stage (second reason why I chose M9 over 1911).

USMCMBA, who built your M9? Thanks, Dwaine

hurt wrote:USMCMBA, who built your M9? Thanks, Dwaine

Dwaine:

Dr. Nick / Mountain Competition Pistols. If you are seriously thinking of getting one, I would suggest you try shooting one first before plunging $2500 into one. It took me a while to get used to shooting the M9 since I was more accustomed to shooting the 1911 wad guns (the grip, feel etc) and to make it worse, making the transition from dot to iron sights was quite a challenge to say the least. But once you can shoot the M9, there are many advantages as I have previously stated.

Good Luck

David

Thanks for the info! Dwaine