TargetTalk

I will be purchasing an Anschutz 1913 in a 1918 precise stock this year and I have a few questions for you seasoned smallbore shooters. I am new to this game and I don’t want to have to buy twice (or over buy) if I don’t need to.

I have been shooting Highpower match rifles for a while now and my sights are Phoenix Precision with a Centra adjustable iris (no colors) in the rear and a 22mm Sinclair in the front with a Gehman horizontal iris.

This new rifle will be primarily used for indoor 4P shooting at the A-36 target with the occasional 50m and at least 2 ” Mini Palma” 200m matches per year. I am currently shooting a Kimber 82G with stock sights, so anything would be a huge improvement.

So here are my questions:
1. Do I just buy the default 7020/10 sight set and be done with it?
2. Do I need a $500 set or would I be fine with spending $300 (6864/10)
3. Do I stay with the standard 18mm in front or go to the a 22mm
4. Do I just buy a 11mm to Weaver adapter and use my Phoenix?

Any “if it were me” or “I wish I would have…” comments would be appreciated. I know that later on I will be adding accessories to the sights to buy points, but for now I just want to start with a good foundation.

Also, thank you Scott for hosting this forum and to all you posters for giving a “newbie” insight into this sport (which by the way is a lot harder than it looks from the outside)

Jim

If you don't mind changing zeros, your hipower sights will work just fine. In fact, I think that you might find the Anschutz 7020 annoying. It's very bulky and blocks your vision forward much more than your highpower sight. Mike Barron

Use your exisiting sights until you call Gary for another Phoenix rear sight!

My 2¢...

1. The 7020 set isn't bad at all.
2. I bought two sets of 6805 rearsights (one for indoor, one for out) - I've subsequently changed to a 7020 and am much happier.
3. I'd stick with 18mm - I have a 10" tube and use a 22mm though.
4. Can't comment.

One thing I like about the 7020 is that you can adjust for cant. I imagine that, coming from highpower, you aren't going to be to canting the rifle so this may not be of use to you.

K.

If your Phoenix is a side-mount, go with that. (If it's the top mount version, there's probably a way to make it work*) You'd just need a $40-50 base that you can get from Champion's Choice. For the front you'll want a tunnel and iris--but you know that from match rifle

Since you'll be shooting the mini-palma, you'll want the large adjustment range you'll get from the HP sight. (It'd be a mess cranking the 7020 all the way up there, if it even goes that far.) And even still, you might want/need some riser bases to play with the front and rear heights to make that work without changing your head position a whole bunch.

I'm another one of those HP shooters-who-dabbles-in-smallbore. I'm shooting one of the Eliseo AN1 kits, and using HP sights. (A Phoenix top mount, and a Riles 22mm front sight stem) And, because I'm used to HP adjustments, I don't feel the need for the much finer smallbore sights.

*I'm sure there's a 11mm dovetail-to-weaver/picitinny adapter available somewhere, and there's probably something that would let you extend the sight behind the end of the dovetail, if needed. (The way smallbore sights extend behind their mounting location)

I shot high power and now am into small bore a little. I put my set of warners on my 1907 and love them. It would take a lot to make me go back to anchutz.

Jim,

"If it were me" and I had $500 to spend on sights it would go for a Warner rear (by itself it eats the $500) or Phoenix rear with Riles or Centra 22mm front. I think the ladder 22mm front might be nice for the mini Palma because you won't have to raise the rear as much, and I like the 22 better than the 18mm. Best case, you would have the same sights on both your match rifle and this one. If you want re-use there might be some options for mounting your existing sight on the Annie.

I'll be in the same pickle tomorrow when I picky up my 1607. I'll shoot it as is for a while but I think I'll be making some changes to the front and rear sights. I need to get out to Waukesha for the indoor league.

Greg Z

I talked to Gary @ Phoenix and he does not make a 11mm base for his sight and he agreed that an adapter may raise the sight too high for a standard front mount (I don't want to use a ladder sight)

NateG wrote: (The way smallbore sights extend behind their mounting location)

Maybe Roadthing could chime in and tell me if his nose hits the bolt on his rifle :)


Greg,
Stop by and say hi on Thursdays, I'll be the good looking guy shooting iron sights.

Jim

This is a Centra sight and there is no adaptor and it goes right on the anschutz dovetail. I like it a lot. And the sight repeats well. And sits pretty low beacuse with my front rightsight I use a Anschutz riser in the rear. But depending on your setup you could use it right on the dovetail.
BTW Bolt has not bit me yet.
Doug

Shooterer,
You will probably need a ladder front sight. It's 24 minutes from 50ft to 100yds and I'm guessing at least 40 min more to 200m. That is a lot of minutes at the back end. Phoenix makes a nice ladder sight that I'm sure you've seen. BTW, where are you shooting 200m mini palma's?
Chris

From 50 feet to 50 yards, there is minimal to no change needed in sight adjustment. From 50 yards to 100 yards, you need approximately 6 minutes adjustment depending on sight radius (eg, 1/8th minute clicks will require approx 48 clicks going from 50 to 100 yards).

Dennis

If you want the best smallbore rear sight that is made today
go to

hpsight.com


dege41

I like the Anschutz 7020 sight. I've tried just about everything else out there and this is the most repeatable and accurate rear sight I've used. For your mini-palma stuff I don't know if there is a rear sight made that has enough elevation to use as-is. Some kind of elevation adjustable front sight would be necessary.

I tried real Gates sights about 20 years ago and they were ok...nothing special. In my opinion not as good as Warner. I'd like to see some data to back up the claim from dege41 (HP sight part-owner) that this Gates clone he makes is the best smallbore rear sight made today. I've yet to see a set at a high level match.

Eric U

Eric

At this time we have only a few shooters using our sights, we have been selling them since june of last year,
Some of the shooters that are using our sight are

Charlie Kemp, Metallic sight winner at Camp perry 2010

Jim Miller numerous times on US Dewar team

Wayne Foshee maker of Right Sight

Go to the web site and read the specs on accurassy and repeatability

dege41,

Sorry, it is just one of my pet peeves when someone claims their mousetrap is the best without anything to back it up. Michael Jordan saying Nike is best is different than a company owner who is financially and emotionally invested in his product making the same claim. I understand where you are coming from. I make some of my own shooting products that I also sell. I feel that mine are the best, but I have no way of proving it one way or another. Therefore I simply can't make a blanket statement that they are. Have you purchased every smallbore rear sight on the market and tested them in the lab and on the rifle? How did they all work long term, say after a year of use and abuse? What about five years?

No disrespect, but I don't consider Camp Perry to be a high level match.

Are your adjustment threads ground or turned? Are they hardened? Are the body parts and pins hardened? How much does your sight weigh. The Gates sight I used back in 1988 was a bit too heavy for my taste.

Eric U

I like the 7002 Anschutz as well, but I got myself a Centra 10-50, which is another of the relatively few made left-handed. I like the lower profile and the firmer clicks and prefer the visibility I get with it, but I reckon Eric is probably right about the repeatability. While it's certainly more than good enough, I do find I make probably one or two extra tweaks with the Centra for a perfect zero than I did with the 7002. I also think the 10-50 I have is less fine in its clicks. I think it's about perfect, as a click or two either direction is enough to account for small wind changes or the development of the overall group, but if you can use the finesse of the Anschutz, it's probably a little better there.

I also use the 7020. I like it a lot. One of my favorite features is the cant adjustment.

Note: the sight is advertised to take 20 clicks (standard length barrel) to move a 10.0 to 10.0. In other words its supposed to take ten clicks to move from a 10.0 to a 10.9. It seems (to me) that the corrections a much coarser than that. I dont know if other users see this as well.
matt

Sights can be as preferential as any other piece of equipment. At the end of the day, they need to have and maintain accurate and repeatable adjustments for both windage and elevation. In addition, you need to consider how fine of adjustment you require based on skill, discipline and barrel length.

Personally, I have used my Gates sights for about 25 Years. They are excellent for prone, but don't have the adjustment for eye relief in standing and kneeling. To fix this I had a custom base made. If weight is not an issue, they are very repeatable on a DTI due to the hardened components. With that said, they are not for everybody and are no longer
made.

I used Anschutz sights also, but they were of the older vintage. They also served me very well. No matter what you get, remember to conduct regular maintenance.

Thanks guys for the input. I have order the rifle without any sights at this point. I will most likely go with the Centra or smaller Anschutz (6805) the 7002 seemed too bulky to me. Which ever rear sight I go with, I'll be using a 22mm up front.

From what I read in the earlier posts, many of you have tried many different sights, if you would have a rear or front sight you would like to sell please email me

Levergun59,
They have 2 Mini Palma matches at the Hartland Sportsman's Club each year. (Delafield WI.)

Thanks again,
Jim

Shooterer wrote:Thanks guys for the input. I have order the rifle without any sights at this point. I will most likely go with the Centra or smaller Anschutz (6805) the 7002 seemed too bulky to me. Which ever rear sight I go with, I'll be using a 22mm up front.

From what I read in the earlier posts, many of you have tried many different sights, if you would have a rear or front sight you would like to sell please email me at jkuderer@yahoo.com

Levergun59,
They have 2 Mini Palma matches at the Hartland Sportsman's Club each year. (Delafield WI.)

Thanks again,
Jim

Jim,
Are they going to be able to have the rifle matches at Hartland this year after the "trouble"?
Greg