TargetTalk

I have noticed this at several matches and in my indoor league. There are people that year after year are classified as Marksman but when you look at published averages of their scores they are shooting in the mid to high 280's in gallery matches. Why are these people not bumped up to Expert? Is it because they do not shoot a required number of matches to get bumped up? Are these gentlemaen just playing with the numbers so that they can take 1st place in their classification at Sectionals and state matches and walk away with cash prizes?

I really don't care people do this because I shoot against myself and try to better my scores againt my own best. I just haven't been doing this BE thing long enough to understand why these guys don't get bumped up and maybe someone would be kind enought to explain this to me.

I generally shoot sharpshooter lately but my classification card is still marksman. The problem is that the league I shoot in doesn't submit scores to the NRA, so until I shoot a sanctioned match or three AND make the higher class with my average scores, I'm stuck with a marksman card.

If these guys are shooting high scores with their .22s on league nights, when they go to a 2700 match they may be shooting much lower scores with their 45s.

If you have their competitor number you can look up their actual classification.

-J.

sandbaggers!!!! They shoot just enough to stay in class,They will even throw shots to stay in class for the next big match, then win that match. Then all of a sudden they can't shoot that good at the next match. I have watched it for years. I have even tried to help there scores along and they call for rescore so i know what there up to. O'well to each there own!!!

A lot of people can remain a marksman or a sharpshooter because they shoot 2700's in between the league matches where scores not only go unreported but their skills with a 45 are a lot lower than with the 22. They would hurt themselves at the big matches where they can fire in the 800's with a 22 but can only manage in the high 600's or low 700's shooting the 45. It sucks to be classed an expert based on your 22 scores and have to shoot against experts and masters when your 45 scores bring your aggregate down into the 2200's.

I have been shooting 2700's and stuck in expert class a long time.

My .22 scores are upper end master and just hitting bottom end high master.

My .45 scores are middle of the road to upper expert.

So yes, I could be dubbed a sandbagger when shooting the .22 matches...

Clarence

I was affected the other way by a classification that didn't tell the whole story. When I started shooting in NRA bullseye the only local matches were just .22 900's. I had been shooting in a league for a while and made Master quickly. When I started shooting 2700's my scores were terrible compared to other Masters and even most Experts. It took a long time for them to get to where I was competitive in the Master class.

Isabel1130 wrote:A lot of people can remain a marksman or a sharpshooter because they shoot 2700's in between the league matches where scores not only go unreported but their skills with a 45 are a lot lower than with the 22. They would hurt themselves at the big matches where they can fire in the 800's with a 22 but can only manage in the high 600's or low 700's shooting the 45. It sucks to be classed an expert based on your 22 scores and have to shoot against experts and masters when your 45 scores bring your aggregate down into the 2200's.

This was me in the early 70s. Col Miller was grooming me, he said, more for freepistol. I shot a couple hundred rounds SF almost daily with the HS 106. I hardly shot the 45 at all except for 2-3 2700 matches each year mostly in Medford OR. I did do pretty good SF with the revolver (38 OMM), but 45 and most sustained was no where near my 22 work. One time in Medford as a Marksman I won the Expert SF and RF with HS. Some old foofs nailed me as a sandbagger just before CF. I had no idea what they were talking about. They watched my CF from behind. I was using the 45. They didn't stay long. I wish I had the OMM that day. It wasn't til later that I learned what they were getting at. Then it kind of ticked me off. These days I just don't give a shot for what others do or score. It is just me and my shooting that counts.

My home club had a few like first mentioned.......would half bag all year to try and do well at a "Big Club Match"......we just ignored them and progressed to whatever levels we could.

Right now, my shooting is very erratic. I stopped BE for nearly 35 years and have been trying to resurrect my high EX/low M. skills. Have shot several disciplines overall, not a noob when it comes to toeing the line but when I started again as UNClassified, then after the two registered 2700's, I am an SS. However, I can have over 100 pts between calibers, CF usually a low and .45 much better (same gun/loads).......Found out I am really expecting a super performance and applying a lot of mental pressure.

Am working on that end of it but if I'd ever "put it all together to approach my backyard practice scores, I'd be labeled a bagger till the next time when I'd finally get moved up - should I have two good matches together. Shot a 2700 at Benning recently and walked away with most of it in SS Civ/Mil in same group.......why? Cause everyone else shot just a bit worse than I did........nothing but high middle SS scores......what a disappointment. Yeah, I did well on the pay out but my personal expectations were not met in the least. I sure don't tell anyone "I won a pistol match".

It's a journey and we meet all types. As has been said, we are shooting for our avg if not at least a personal best and the rest be hanged.

Just received my outdoor pistol classification. As I understand it, it takes 360 shots in one disipline (indoor, outdoor, etc.) to get a classification.
How and when does that classification ever change?
Or are we reclassified every 360 rds?
Thanks!

You will be reclassified if any continuous 360 shots are in a higher class. It can be a little confusing how this is figured. If you shoot only 900's or 1800's it is based on your last 2 or 4 matches. If you shoot 2700's you have to be in the higher class for two complete matches even though it is 540 shots.

Thank you marvelshooter! That explains it nicely!

The only 'official' indoor shooting some competitors do is the sectional. One 900 per year. Using the 360 round rule you can shoot for four years at a lower classification than your outdoor classification.

You can also see shooters who are still developing in the sharpshooter and expert classes. They turn in tremendous .22 and CF scores (if they are using a .32 or .38) but fall back when they pick up the .45.

The key to preparing yourself to be competitive in outdoor 2700's is to shoot full outdoor 2700's. .22, CF & .45 practice routines that use the .45 for both CF and .45 and include 50yd slowfire practice. I have seen guys who only shoot at 25yds completely psych themselves out when that B-6 target is sitting waaaay out there.

"The key to preparing yourself to be competitive in outdoor 2700's is to shoot full outdoor 2700's. .22, CF & .45 practice routines that use the .45 for both CF and .45 and include 50yd slowfire practice. I have seen guys who only shoot at 25yds completely psych themselves out when that B-6 target is sitting waaaay out there."

You are correct, the distance element is psyching people out although the records would indicate that it is a little easier to shoot the 50 slow fire target than the one reduced for 25 yards. I think another thing that is happening, is people who can hold the black all day long on the 25 yard slow fire target when they shoot indoors come to the realization that either their gun, or their loads or sometimes both, are inadequate to go 50 yards accurately. A few shots not on call and you get shook. :-)

Isabel1130 wrote:"You are correct, the distance element is psyching people out although the records would indicate that it is a little easier to shoot the 50 slow fire target than the one reduced for 25 yards.

If you do the angular math the B-16 25yd slow fire target is tougher with the .22, a wash with a .38 and easier with the .45. It's the psych thing that gets most new shooters. I even see it at the commercial indoor range I shoot at. Most people while hardly run their targets past 10 yards. Most people don't think they can hit anything out at 25 yards and won't even try.

I was very lucky, in that respect. The first outdoor ranges that I had any real experience on were in Germany, and they were set up at 25 meters. When I started shooting in the US, 25 yards looked easier to me in comparison, although the 50 yard line was still a bit daunting. I have gotten a lot more confident in my hold over the last three months, and now I just need to "hold on" to that confidence when I start shooting outdoors again.

Conditioning and mental toughness also plays a big part in the 45 letdown in a 2700 match that is shot in a day. You have just finished two matches in the morning, had lunch and it usually is windier, hotter and you are a little fatigued. I would try to make a 2700 each weekend from April til Perry just to build up my tolerance to the grind. I would shoot my 45 in the centerfire match also and left my 38 in the gunbox. If I pulled out the 38 for the Regionals or Perry I had to watch out for the first shot as the lighter trigger pull gave a really unexpected break usually out the top of the target.
Chris