TargetTalk

In a 60 shot air rifle match on paper targets, one per card, a shooter accidently loads two pellets. The result was a 3 and a 1 scored. They were both scored, the shooter dropped 17 in one shot but two pellets, and the shooter was instructed to leave the next card blank. Was this correct? How should it be handled under ISSF rules? I have read and re read the rules and can't decide!
It was an aimed shot so should they have both been counted? if so then the shooter has only taken 59 shots. If this is correct then in this case the shooter lost a bundle in one shot but if they had bothed scored 10's it would have been an unfair advantage? Was this a malfunction? If it was a malfunction, which was clearly the shooters fault should the card be scored as a miss or just the lowest score counted, i.e. the one , plus or not a penalty? and then the next shot taken as normal which if itwas a ten would create a better result but the shooter would have completed the match which was 60 not 59. This was not two shots on one card, it was one shot with two pellets. They have not fired an extra shot, a shot is a discharge of air not the number of pellets as a dry discharge during an event is taken as a miss.
I realise that big matches are shot on electronics but the same situation could arise.
Come on rule hounds, what applies?

Embarassed

Doh!
Just found it, rule 6.11.4.2.4, we was robbed! The rule states the higher of the two shots is counted and the other shot is annuled and the shooter continues.

Embarassed wrote:Doh!
The rule states the higher of the two shots is counted and the other shot is annuled and the shooter continues.

Remember that under 6.11.4.2.4 it's the higher VALUE shot that's counted.

I only mention this because under 8.7.4.3.1.7 (automatic firing with a 25m gun) the shots POSITIONED highest on the target are disregarded.

Our matches are run by NRA rules. I don't see that the air rifle shooter is given this advantage for making the blunder of loading two pellets. It looks to me that both shots would count and the shooter would not shoot on the upcoming bullseye. I would be happy to have someone prove me wrong by quoting the rule.

Misny wrote:Our matches are run by NRA rules. I don't see that the air rifle shooter is given this advantage for making the blunder of loading two pellets. It looks to me that both shots would count and the shooter would not shoot on the upcoming bullseye. I would be happy to have someone prove me wrong by quoting the rule.

Misny ... unfortunately, you are correct, the NRA has no definition of a "shot" (which ISSF & USAS do ... i.e. the release of propellant). Once you define a shot, it seems a simple logical process to annul the lower value hole ... or "hit" as the NRA defines it.
NRA is also notoriously SLOW in making changes to their rules. (well I guess except for silhouette) About the only thing that can be done is to send a note/request to the Competitions folks ... I'd suggest HQ Moody asking for a change or clarification.

The match in question was shot under ISSF rules. The USA is welcome to do what it wishes.

I find it easier to just load ONE pellet and not worry about it. :-)

Embarassed wrote:...I realise that big matches are shot on electronics but the same situation could arise...

probably not, unless the shooter reports the matter - the 10m EST will normally only record one shot (the first to reach the target) as the 'system' on the standard target shuts off for 5 seconds recycle time. Even the targets for 5-shot 10m have a recycle time of 0.3 sec; far longer than the time for the second pellet to register.

jhmartin wrote:

Misny wrote:Our matches are run by NRA rules. I don't see that the air rifle shooter is given this advantage for making the blunder of loading two pellets. It looks to me that both shots would count and the shooter would not shoot on the upcoming bullseye. I would be happy to have someone prove me wrong by quoting the rule.

Misny ... unfortunately, you are correct, the NRA has no definition of a "shot" (which ISSF & USAS do ... i.e. the release of propellant). Once you define a shot, it seems a simple logical process to annul the lower value hole ... or "hit" as the NRA defines it.
NRA is also notoriously SLOW in making changes to their rules. (well I guess except for silhouette) About the only thing that can be done is to send a note/request to the Competitions folks ... I'd suggest HQ Moody asking for a change or clarification.

Thanks, I am not trying to hijack the thread, but wanted to make sure that I was clear about the NRA rules regarding the same thing..."Loading two rounds". It seems that the NRA rules in this case are consistent with it's rules in other disciplines where the shooter makes a mistake. They make the shooter pay the maximum penalty. I am not against the NRA rules as they stand. It may seem to some to be advantageous to have the rule conform to the ISSF, but the ISSF seems way to rule heavy to me.

Roodaddy600 wrote:I find it easier to just load ONE pellet and not worry about it. :-)

LOL, I agree. I don't recall this coming up at any of the matches we've run over many years. Now I'll probably be the first one to do it at the next match!

Not as bad as the Resende, Brazil world cup in 2006. In the 3p final one of the guys simply forgot to load his rifle one shot:
Command load
Closed his bolt
Took aim
Pulled the trigger
Click...
Raised his hand
Official came over and he opened the bolt
No bullet
-10 points, with a crowd watching

At least you got some points.

Eric U