mountain competition

[cowboydon]

I sent my les baer 45acp to Dr Nick in january of 2010 had some good conversation with him, he said he could tune my pistol and put a new shuemann barrel on it in a couple of months, called back in april, and was rude and said i was not his only customer, i have not been able to get ahold of him since, called e-mailed left messages, nothing. i really don't care how great a smith he is now, i just want my pistol back, I have been in business for 45 years, and i would not have lasted very long treating people like that, I know he is real busy and they don't want to answer the phones, but give me a break he could e-mail me and let me know what is happening, i sent him a letter and told him to box up the pistol and send it back, have seen nothing.

DH

[Guest]

... why didn't you just send it to Les Baer?

[cowboydon]

... why didn't you just send it to Les Baer?

To put a Scheumann barrel on, he would have loved that. I don't think so.

DH

[Guest]

... but now Les Baer won't work on that pistol again, ever.

If there was a problem with Les Baer's kart barrel, he would have fixed or replaced it free, forever.

Accuracy guarantee (3" or 1-1/2"); 10 round test target proof; all guaranteed forever unless you let another gunsmith work on the pistol. How can anybody possibly beat that?

Why MCP and Scheumann over the guy who made it?

[cowboydon]

... but now Les Baer won't work on that pistol again, ever.

If there was a problem with Les Baer's kart barrel, he would have fixed or replaced it free, forever.

Accuracy guarantee (3" or 1-1/2"); 10 round test target proof; all guaranteed forever unless you let another gunsmith work on the pistol. How can anybody possibly beat that?

Why MCP and Scheumann over the guy who made it?

You must be a LB salesman, you not getting the picture, LB barrels are a 16 twist, i want a 24 gain twist, they will out shoot his 16t all day, ask the guys that are winning the big ones, all pistols some day will come out with the gain twist.

DH

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Why is a SB,with a 24:1 twist more accurate than a (Kart/LB) barrel with a STD 16:1 ??? If a well made barrel,from a barrel fixture.is capable of .6 to 1.25 inches-how much better can you expect a 24:1 twist??? Not only that- these accuracy figures I see on the forum,about various barrel brands-are they lead or jacketed??? What bullet weight are we talking about??? What bullet velocities are we refering to??? Thanks for opinions.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Any technical reason for a slower twist?? Tnx

[cowboydon]

Why is a SB,with a 24:1 twist more accurate than a (Kart/LB) barrel with a STD 16:1 ??? If a well made barrel,from a barrel fixture.is capable of .6 to 1.25 inches-how much better can you expect a 24:1 twist??? Not only that- these accuracy figures I see on the forum,about various barrel brands-are they lead or jacketed??? What bullet weight are we talking about??? What bullet velocities are we refering to??? Thanks for opinions.

You can spin all the bs anyway you want, the bottom line is i will shoot 25 5 shot groups with my gain twist, and you shoot your 16t and you will get second place. end of story. post your targets and i will post mine. 50 yards. count your fliers, that is where you will lose.

DH

[Ernie Rodriguez]

I was hoping for a technical answer to a legitimate question-I still don't know what is special about that barrel.Anyone out there know??

[usmcmba]

... but now Les Baer won't work on that pistol again, ever.

If there was a problem with Les Baer's kart barrel, he would have fixed or replaced it free, forever.

Accuracy guarantee (3" or 1-1/2"); 10 round test target proof; all guaranteed forever unless you let another gunsmith work on the pistol. How can anybody possibly beat that?

Why MCP and Scheumann over the guy who made it?

I do not know where you got the information that Les Baer will fix or replace parts on his guns for free, forever. Last time I checked, Les Baer will charge you every chance they get. I have owned two Les Baers and neither have I received anything free from them.

I bought a Les Baer Bullseye wadcutter back in 2006. I started to get good shooting bullseye and also wanted to experiment with different things on a pistol like a roll trigger. I happen to have met Les Baer at the shotshow in Orlando. I said to Les "Les, can you put a roll trigger on my LB Bulleye wadcutter?" His reply "what did you do to my gun?". I said, "Nothing, I wanted to try a roll trigger because some exceptional shooters (like Brian Zins) shoot with a roll." He said "no, we don't do roll trigger and what did you do to my gun?" The conversation got nowhere quick. Good thing I found Dr. Nick shortly afterward. I sold my Bullseye wadcutter, sent Dr. Nick my other Les Baer (a premier II) for a complete make over. Dr. Nick basically gutted the pistol, put a Nowlin barrel, short roll trigger, slide mount with an Aimpoint red dot etc. The gun shots so much better than the LB Bullseye wadcutter both in feel and in accuracy (sub 1 1/2" at 50 yards). Best decision I made in shooting was to get rid of the baer and go completely custom with Dr. Nick. Les baer you have to use LB parts or what LB wants you to have. Not me, I like to do things my way. Only thing I may ever buy from Baer would be just the slide and frame, nothing else.

Overall, I am happy with Dr. Nick. I also bought his M9, another beauty and shooter. A custom pistol smith is the way to go.[/img]

[6string]

As usmcmba said: "A custom pistol smith is the way to go."
To that I'll add nothing beats meeting these guys and finding someone you like who'll listen to your ideas. It might be a big name guy or it might be someone that is relatively unknown. I was lucky to meet Dave Salyer from South Carolina. He is a Master shooter and a gunsmith. He shoots his own stuff, never has alibis (at least that I've witnessed) and wins matches. He's also a nice guy and modest mannered gentleman. I gave him a Kimber Gold Match to work over and it shoots fantastic. You can see his articles on the www.bullseyepistol.com site.
Dr. Nick and Les Baer are very high profile gunsmiths. Obviously, some guys love their work and other guys think they're practically crooks. Try going to lots of different matches and ask around about gunsmiths. Sometimes the guys who aren't household names will just work a little harder.
Just my personal observation.

[CR10X]

But....

Back to Ernie's question. Please give me a list of the shooters that use that barrel. I only know of 2 people that I talked to at Perry that used that barrel and I know where they placed. I shoot a Kart barrel, but then again, what do I know. Well, I do know that every shot outside the X was my fault. So please give me some names to contact.

By the way, the only Scheumann I ever tested was great with jacketed, but only OK with lead. It's not just twist; but loads, smoothness, size, convergence and consistency that complete the list. Sometimes it's one good or bad barrel, sometimes its a whole group. So I'm not saying they are good or bad, I just need some info to back up the comments so I can find out for myself.

Anyway, I want to talk to who's supposed to be winning with this one and the scores.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Cecil Rhodes
(real name, real person, occasional competitor.)

[Isabel1130]

Cecil, I am with you. I think that Brian Zins would still be winning if he was shooting my gun or your gun with the Kart barrels. I further wonder how Hershel Anderson managed a 2680 down in Tennessee, in 1974, with iron sights and no Schuemann barrel. My suspicion. it ain't the gun. :-) Kate Schaumann

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Perhaps when DH does get his Schuemann barrel installed and he tests it at 50 yards-he will share his experience with the forum members. I,for one,would like to hear about this barrel and how it performs with lead/jacketed bullets.

[hill987]

I believe the old rule still lives and if it ain't broke don't fit it !!! I still believe iron sights are still the best.. Nobody even Brian has not beat the records held with ironsights. I know they allow optics (ultra dots). But, I feel in some respects it is cheating or the lazy mans way. Back to the original question, Kart National Match barrels and Barstow rule the roost for the most part, all in 1/16 twist. So, as far as the 45 goes, I like Kart the best. Any fliers are the fault of the reloader or the person, not the barrel.

[Guest]

USMCMBA,

You could have taken out the Les Baer trigger/ hammer / sear, had a nice roll to your liking done with new parts and not voided the warranty.

Les Baer does not state his warranty or guarantee explicitly -- look at the note from Les Baer that came with your pistol explaining why.

I've sent my 1-1/5" Premier II back to him for a tweak & repair, so have others that I know. Never any charge. Call up and ask to speak with Les personally if you have a problem. He stands behind his pistols.

No I'm not a Les Baer salesman (and I'm not knocking MCP or Schuemann). If you want a double layer of excellent customer service, buy your Les Bear from Gil Hebard.

[GOVTMODEL]

You can spin all the bs anyway you want, the bottom line is i will shoot 25 5 shot groups with my gain twist, and you shoot your 16t and you will get second place. end of story. post your targets and i will post mine. 50 yards. count your fliers, that is where you will lose.

DH

I can't resist commenting that when Camp Perry becomes a grouping contest fired from a Ransom Rest, I'll reconsider my current set up.

Unfortunately for me, we have to stand up on our hind legs, hold the gun with one hand, and shoot it ourselves. And that's where any advantage a better barrel is lost:-)

[usmcmba]

USMCMBA,

You could have taken out the Les Baer trigger/ hammer / sear, had a nice roll to your liking done with new parts and not voided the warranty.

Les Baer does not state his warranty or guarantee explicitly -- look at the note from Les Baer that came with your pistol explaining why.

I've sent my 1-1/5" Premier II back to him for a tweak & repair, so have others that I know. Never any charge. Call up and ask to speak with Les personally if you have a problem. He stands behind his pistols.

No I'm not a Les Baer salesman (and I'm not knocking MCP or Schuemann). If you want a double layer of excellent customer service, buy your Les Bear from Gil Hebard.

Your latest post actually contradicts the one you posted previously. First of all, if you notice in my post, I had stated that Les Baer does not do roll triggers at all. Call them and see if they would do one when you get a chance. What that means is you have to send your pistol to a gunsmith (that is not Les Baer) who can do a roll. Per your first post, that would void the warranty in which my understanding is correct as Les Baer is so anal he will void the warranty the first chance he gets and having other smiths work on "his guns" or having parts on his gun not sold by him is cause for the voiding. You cannot just drop in parts and expect to get a roll trigger without having a competent gunsmith doing so, so thereby you cannot avoid having your warranty voided if you choose to do a roll trigger.

Secondly, you wrote in your latest posting that Les Baer does not state his warranty or guarantee explicitly. However, in your first post, you stated that any work not done by Les Baer will void the warranty, that to me is as explicit as it gets.

I am rather surprised that Les Baer would do work for free. So you are saying that he will repair and replace for regular wear and tear? It seems to me you are suggesting that by "tweaking and repairing." It has been over three years since I have dealt with Les Baer, so maybe things have changed? I don't know if anyone wants to chime in regarding free work from LB.

Lastly, I have talked to Les Baer before both in person and over the phone. I and may others who have talked to him will agree, Les Baer is not a very personable guy. The only half decent customer service you will ever get from them is when you call to give them your credit card number.

[Guest]

Shooters... Les Baer has manufactured and sold thousands and thousands of premium 1911's to both competitors and recreational shooters. He will hopefully continue to manufacture and sell thousands and thousands more.

He fields "Les Baer Custom" teams at Camp Perry and elsewhere. I'm told he had a small set-up at Camp Perry last year on Commercial Row, but I didn't see it. Sinclair building I believe. He supports our sport.

He most certainly does not possess the Queen's manners, and also from time to time it's been reported that he smells.

With Rock River no longer producing "semi custom" 1911's (apparently they are taking first come, first served custom orders while parts last), Les Baer is the last one left in this market segment.

Your Chevy dealer won't work on a Chrysler engine if you could jimmie it into your Impala; Why would Les Baer want to deal with a 24-in-one Schumann barrel in his slide?

USMCMBA, save the original hammer and sear to put back in if it has to go back to the factory for something. No big deal.

[Guest]

... yeah... right... sorta like the dishonesty promoted by the swapping out of grip panels?