TargetTalk

It seems to me, in discussions with pals who are "into shooting" that the lowly .22LR is just exactly that - lowly.

Most of them have one or two (or more :) .22 rimfire rifles, but they simply do not rate these rifles. They are keen on 243, 260, 303, and other stuff, but somehow the .22 is just (apparently) set aside for plinking.

This is despite the fact that the top target shooters in the world use nothing else.

So what's going on here? I know that the .22lr is produced in greater quantities than any other round on the planet (maybe more than ALL other rounds added together? So I've heard), so that says that the quality is probably "variable".

So is it simply financial? Anyone can buy a box of .22lr, but if you get up there among the real stuff, it just costs too much?

And if the .22lr Olympic rifle dictates the accuracy standard, what is all that other stuff for? Is there some ballistic explanation? I can handle equations if they are offered. :)

You'll probably also find that your buddies don't shoot paper targets much, because it's too easy. A subset of the only thing good is that which makes the biggest boom, or knocks down the target hardest.

Usually their egos can't abide the humble pie we all have to eat when the results of our shooting are all right there on the target for all to see. With non-paper targets they always "just barely missed it", never shoot a seven, or ye' gods - a miss.

I'm sure I'll get roasted by a high power shooter or two for this, but here goes:

It takes better shooting fundamentals to be good with a .22 than to be good with a high power rifle. Having tried both, high power feels like shooting a laser. You can catch the 10 ring as it goes by; not in smallbore.

I've met a few high power shooters who think a 1in group at 50 yards is the limit of a .22's accuracy. But this misconception is probably because they haven't used a target quality rifle with good ammo. That, or they haven't tried to be any more accurate than hitting a tin can, much less seen a smallbore match.

You can also notice that high power shooters take notice when you show up at your first high power match and mention you're a smallbore shooter. On the other hand, I don't worry too much when a high power shooter shows up for a smallbore match. Sure there are a few exceptions to this, but more often than not, this is what I have observed.

To save a little face here, I also know a lot of high power shooters that have dedicated smallbore uppers to be more economical in their practices. However, those guns will never match the accuracy of a match grade rifle, so maybe there's another source of misconception.

I have a friend who started on the "big end". After trying a .22 rifle and pistol for a while, he said, "You know, you're right. The .22s ARE more fun."

Some guys like to blast. Some guys like to hit the target (see airguns).

More smallbore shooters become HP shooters over time than HP shooters become smallbore shooters. It is just a matter of exposure. More kids shoot SB early than shoot HP. Thus the SB exposure. More parents, clubs, schools start with SB than HP. If dad and or mom is a HP shooter it is best to start the kid in SB than go right to HP. It teaches a LOT of the funderdentals. But I do know that are many exceptions to that as is evidenced by VERY young HP shooters at Perry. HP service guns (ARs especially so) can be shared more easily between parents and childern and with practice get good results accross the course. But in SB... much smaller fitting rifles or more customizing is required to fit the kids stock wise, strength of the kid so on and so forth. Fewer kids shoot HP Match gun but again more customizatiuon is allowed in HP Match Rifle. HP ammo is VERY costly, even remanufactured ammo. Match fees are higher, pits service is harder for youngsters to endure. The OP fails to mention SB and HP silhouette. That is a game that is just Hit or Miss..thats it!.. .22LR for SB and .30 and above for HP as I recall. All standing, no special coats, slings, gloves. No "special" guns either in the Hunting classes. A very attractive sport. Hit or Miss that simple.

There are many reasons why 22 is the way to start out.
22lr ammo is cheaper for the low to mid grade ammo.
You don't need to reload.
You can shoot on smaller ranges <100 yards and on indoor ranges.
You can shoot indoors in a heated range in the winter.(colder climate areas)
It's alot quieter.
You can buy new off the rack an olympic grade rifle where most high end high power guns need to be built up custom.
In no way am I saying 22 is better... its just got some advantages apon startup over high power.

Waisted wrote:It seems to me, in discussions with pals who are "into shooting" that the lowly .22LR is just exactly that - lowly.

Most of them have one or two (or more :) .22 rimfire rifles, but they simply do not rate these rifles. They are keen on 243, 260, 303, and other stuff, but somehow the .22 is just (apparently) set aside for plinking.

This is despite the fact that the top target shooters in the world use nothing else.

Who do you class as the top target shooters? Olympians?
There are people who shoot targets over a mile with all sorts of rifles from .50cal down to the relatively lowly .308. They are just as talented and skilled in their own way as Matt Emmons or Warren Potent, it just happens their discipline isn't featured in the Olympics (probably because it's a lot easier to run .22 competitions over 50m than fullbore competitions upto 1000yds, etc). They still have their own competitions and championships, albeit much lower profile.
The ISSF recognises Running Deer and 300m, along with a slew of non-Olympic shotgun and pistol events.
The Commonwealth Games feature fullbore target rifle shooting. Also, Malcolm Cooper - the only person to defend the Olympic 3P Gold medal (winning in 1984 & 1988), was a prolific 300M shooter, winning many European and World Championships shooting 7.62mm. So to say "the top target shooters in the world use nothing else." is fairly narrow-minded.

Waisted wrote:So is it simply financial? Anyone can buy a box of .22lr, but if you get up there among the real stuff, it just costs too much?

And if the .22lr Olympic rifle dictates the accuracy standard, what is all that other stuff for? Is there some ballistic explanation? I can handle equations if they are offered. :)

It is financial to an extent. Plenty of people train on air pistols and .22 pistols even though larger calibre pistols are legal in their countries, purely because in the UK for example, £5 will buy a tin of 500 air pellets, a 50round box of .22lr and maybe 20 rounds of .38 or .44 (not that we can have pistols, but plenty of people shoot carbine rifles in Pistol calibres).
You do the math.

Also, in my experience, smallbore shooters make better fullbore shooters than fullbore shooters make smallbore shooters.

Smallbore is a much more technical discipline, and whilst you do need to be a dab hand at reading the wind to shoot well over 50metres, it's a totally different story to averaging out different wind speeds over 1000-1500yds.
That's why a lot of the better fullbore shooters come inside and shoot .22 over the winter to work on their technique and the actual shot process. When I started shooting fullbore, I became acutely aware I had to stop ovethinking the shot and just take the shot as soon as the wind came good, even if the shot wasn't perfect.
By contrast in smallbore, I'd grown up with the mantra that a good shot in bad wind is usually better than a bad shot in good wind.
If the wind is bad, you wait a few minutes to see if it'll come good, and if not, then try and carefully shoot through it.
Your priorities have a slightly different distribution in fullbore than smallbore. Under NRA rules you have 45 seconds to take the shot. You have to be ready to take a shot at a second's notice if that lull comes through. You are restricted by shooting in turn with other people, so you can't break for a minute, then rattle of a few shots in good wind. You're making the best of it, whatever the conditions are.

It's also a convenience thing. In Europe there are a lot more .22 ranges than fullbore ranges, so the cost of fullbore ammo is magnified by cost of travel, and also by the cost of hiring a target marker for a day unless you're in a group and take turns to self-mark. So it's a lot easier to get into air and smallbore.

Also, they're a great starting point. Make a technical error in fullbore and it will be masked by the recoil and the wind.
Make an error in smallbore or air, and the minimal recoil makes it much easier to identify it as you (and correct it). This has been taken to extremes with dry-fire training aids like SCATT and NOPTEL which mean there is literally no recoil, so you can identify exactly any errors or movements you are making during the shot process (i.e. there shouldn't be any movement except your trigger finger squeezing off the shot).

Pat McCoy wrote:You'll probably also find that your buddies don't shoot paper targets much, because it's too easy. A subset of the only thing good is that which makes the biggest boom, or knocks down the target hardest.

Usually their egos can't abide the humble pie we all have to eat when the results of our shooting are all right there on the target for all to see. With non-paper targets they always "just barely missed it", never shoot a seven, or ye' gods - a miss.

BINGO!!

Everyone is a crackshot, sharpshootinest gun slinger at the hunting camp. They will tell you the story about the time they shot the squirrel on a full run at 100 yards through the tree top with their .22. Yet when you invite them to come shoot some silhouettes sitting motionless on a stand at a know distance they will not even give it a try.

I shoot Smallbore and Airgun Rifle and also some highpower and I think airgun helps with smallbore and smallbore helps with highpower. They are each their own breed and each has its own set of problems. You have to have better follow through for airgun than smallbore and then for HP. So airgun gets the nod on drilling you on that aspect. Holding still and pulling the trigger at the right time is the basis for a good shot with anything.

Bo

Bowman26 wrote:

Pat McCoy wrote:You'll probably also find that your buddies don't shoot paper targets much, because it's too easy. A subset of the only thing good is that which makes the biggest boom, or knocks down the target hardest.

Usually their egos can't abide the humble pie we all have to eat when the results of our shooting are all right there on the target for all to see. With non-paper targets they always "just barely missed it", never shoot a seven, or ye' gods - a miss.

BINGO!!

Everyone is a crackshot, sharpshootinest gun slinger at the hunting camp. They will tell you the story about the time they shot the squirrel on a full run at 100 yards through the tree top with their .22. Yet when you invite them to come shoot some silhouettes sitting motionless on a stand at a know distance they will not even give it a try.

I shoot Smallbore and Airgun Rifle and also some highpower and I think airgun helps with smallbore and smallbore helps with highpower. They are each their own breed and each has its own set of problems. You have to have better follow through for airgun than smallbore and then for HP. So airgun gets the nod on drilling you on that aspect. Holding still and pulling the trigger at the right time is the basis for a good shot with anything.

Bo

it funny to watch the socalled great shots blow a shot with a air rifle ..there was a couple of guys who where basic blowhards when it came to shooting.so one day someone hand them a air rifle and told to try the this style of rifle. and most can not hit the a target at 10 meters ..they can not do it and hit the target ..

they allways saying that they can not see the sights or the wind was the problem on a inside the building range ..