TargetTalk

Does anyone have any advice on the fit of the pistol grip in 50m prone rifle? How do you tell if it is right and if it is not right what are the best methods to add more or take material away to suit the fit?

Interesting question. The grip only needs to be big enough for the shooter to stabilize the rear of the stock and still allow sufficient room for the trigger finger to reach the trigger shoe.

I have a pistol grip as part of a custom stock on a non-precision rifle, and it was too big for my hand. I ended up using a dremel tool to carefully shave down the wood. I do NOT suggest this for anyone who hasn't done this before or who can't afford to replace the wood stock!

My 1913 was perfect for my hand. In fact, the wood is extremely shiny - "hand rubbed wood" look.

The only thing your grip hand should really be doing is loosely holding the grip and your trigger finger does the work.

The Ways of the Rifle book clearly advocates a firm grip. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain why, nor cite evidence that it has been determined experimentally to be best. If it is indeed best, perhaps the fit of the grip to the hand would be more important than generally appreciated. I suppose, if nothing else, a well-fitting grip would directly control your hand position and thus make your hand, wrist and forearm configuration consistent.

I guess it all depends on what to you is 'firm' and what is 'loose'. I advocate a firm grip but only firm enough to feel the grip, you shouldn't be squeezing it, or gripping hard.

Anything too firm will start to affect the trigger finger and like wise the trigger finger can also then impart force into the trigger grip as well.

Rob.

We recommend firm to help control recoil. ABout as hard as you grip a carton of milk. Dont go so tight that it disturbs recoil, just controls it. Pretty vague yes, but you can experiment for yourself and see

Shane

Shane hits it on the nose.

I took a very specific look at this issue on the noptel and did not find a significant increase or decrease in hold. However, like Shane has pointed out - reducing/controlling recoil is key. Even though it didn't show any significant deviation on the noptel, it DID show in live-fire. It's probably a personal issue as to how much you grip the gun, but if you are going to do it, you simply have to make sure that it is exactly the same each time AND that when you DO grip the gun, the actual tightening does not move you from your NPA.

For a VERY long time, I used to get nervous at big matches. Never if i was shooting poorly. Only when i was shooting VERY well. Weird huh?! If I knew I was heading toward a 595+, my right arm and hand would shake if I ANY muscle tension existed from the fingertips to the shoulder. So I shied away from having ANY tension on the grip. Today, I don't have that problem, so I have been able to accept that a grip level of some magnitude might be beneficial.

The first live fire session I did I found that it was difficult for me to get the number of tens I was accustomed to getting and the x-count was certainly lower. But after the third session - after a heavy focus on the consistency of the strength of the grip and an unaltered NPA, it started to improve. I'm still working with it to some degree each practice, but it does seem to helping me to have a "medium" tight grip.

If you do decide to incorporate a tighter grip, I mishgt suggest that you get into position, settle on the bull with a VERY light grip at first, and tighten your grip as you are start you aiming process. If you see the gun pull off the bull or your NPA change in any way, reposition your elbow and hand and try again...and again...and again - until you are looking through the sights, tightening the grip and not seeing ANY deviation.

Hope that helps. BartP

I used to shoot with nearly no grip at all, until I was corrected. When I started using a more firm grip, the shooting got slightly better in terms of results, but the feel was better, and most significantly to me, it cut huge time off my matches, because the releases became very decisive and solid, much less time worrying about the trigger control, as it seemed to take care of itself better, so at the top end of my shooting, it didn't go up much, but the bottom level came up hugely, as strong, decisive releases meant a much, much smaller rate of weird brainfart shots, which I'm convinced are just a product of spending too much time on a simple process.

Something I've been giving thought to lately as well. When Shane says "control recoil", what does that refer to? The direction of the recoil, the degree of recoil, both, something else? If you could describe this a little more, I would appreciate it.

Dennis L

BartP, going to Ohio?

Hi Dennis,

Yes. Absolutely. I've completely switched over to the new Shilen barreled 1913 and with one of Tarl's tuners (not tuned), I was able to shoot a 1200-108X (Perry course) last week in 100+ degree temps - tuning as the match developed. I have gotten a handle on my daily health requirements and it feels good to be headed into Nationals with solid scores. Since that match, I actually got a day where I was able to tune in the early morning (when it was cool enough) and the rifle is performing very nicely.

This is going to be a weird yea at Perry. Most of the Unit is gone and will not be sending a 3P team at all. Still have to contend with Shane and Josh, though. Tarl and Reya are also gone to Worlds. Shapes up for a different match than usual.

See you in Ohio, my friend. Bart

When I say control recoil I mean the size of it and direction. The direction should be straight up and down, if it's not then there is something not quite right in your position and that needs to be addressed. As for the size you dont want it very big. Its kinda hard for me to describe it exactly while writing this, much easier in person so one could see the difference between a big recoil and a small recoil. Even if your recoil is slightly big, that is better than having it go off in some direction other than straight up.

Thanks for the responses so far. I did some training over the last few days and have pretty much concluded that it doesnt fit. Looking at the pistol grip sizing charts on the net that say the size of the pistol grip relates to the measurement across your palm puts me at the top end of medium and the bottom end of large. I do use a medium but feel that there are spaces inside the palm and lower fingers that i take up by holding the grip to tight. One of the problems that has been arising is that i have trouble controlling the trigger finger as the 3 fingers under the trigger finger are holding really tight to take that space up and the trigger finger at times just pulls through the trigger. This is really disconcerting as i am unsure when it is going to happen. At first i thought it was a poor position that led to these problems but now i think not.

If anyone has anymore thoughts i would greatly appreciate them.

Thanks Rob

You seem to be an advanced shooter and am probably aware of this so,if I am wasting your time just ignore this. I recommend a grip tight enough to anchor the shooting hand so that the only thing moving is an indipendent trigger finger that touches nothing but the trigger. I also believe that the recoil is controled best by a techniqcally correct position and sling adjustment. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Rob25220 wrote:I do use a medium but feel that there are spaces inside the palm and lower fingers that i take up by holding the grip to tight. One of the problems that has been arising is that i have trouble controlling the trigger finger as the 3 fingers under the trigger finger are holding really tight to take that space up and the trigger finger at times just pulls through the trigger. This is really disconcerting as i am unsure when it is going to happen. At first i thought it was a poor position that led to these problems but now i think not.

If anyone has anymore thoughts i would greatly appreciate them.

Thanks Rob

If you have spaces and gaps then fill them, or dremmel out wood in other places to make the grip slightly smaller (only you can tell which direction to go). Too many people put up with ill fitting pistol grips rather than do a bit of attentive wood crafting (IMHO).

Rob.

Just out of interest, if you watch the recent ISSF TV final of the 50m Prone (long version) at about 2:50-3:00min then again at 8:33-8:50min you see the Russian shooter Artem doesnt grip the stock at all, his fingers all just lay along side of grip.

http://www.issf-sports.org/tvplayer.asp ... 6-h-fr60pr