TargetTalk

I'm new to BE and trying to learn all I can because I'm going broke buying pasters.

I shot in my fourth match last Saturday and had two Master Shooters give me two different versions of what to do during sustained fire. One said watch the front sight (red dot for me due to age and old eyes) during recoil and bring it back to target. Never loose sight of the front sight. The other said not necessary to watch front sight, just hold firm and let your arm naturally come back into position and the front sight will be in target area.

Which is the best way to handle the front sight issue? Sometimes (especially in Rapid Fire) I get rushed because I loose the dot and it takes a second to find it and put it on target. Thanks, everyone. Larry

I go along with the one who said not to try and watch the front sight (dot) during recoil. Find it as soon as you can and do not rush the next shot. Wait till you have it and it is back on target. There IS enough time. And you are hearing this from a longtime Master who will still rush the last shot or two in a string of rapid fire more often than I like.

Were on the target are you putting the pasters? that will tell you whats happening. Do you have the filter on the end of the red dot scope? Have you found your natural point of aim?

larrye44 wrote:I'm new to BE and trying to learn all I can because I'm going broke buying pasters.

I shot in my fourth match last Saturday and had two Master Shooters give me two different versions of what to do during sustained fire. One said watch the front sight (red dot for me due to age and old eyes) during recoil and bring it back to target. Never loose sight of the front sight. The other said not necessary to watch front sight, just hold firm and let your arm naturally come back into position and the front sight will be in target area.

Which is the best way to handle the front sight issue? Sometimes (especially in Rapid Fire) I get rushed because I loose the dot and it takes a second to find it and put it on target. Thanks, everyone. Larry

Wecome to the world of bullseye. You have found out early that not all Master shooters have the same opnion on how to shoot. The other possibility is that they are trying to tell you the same thing in different ways,. Many of these guys have been shooting so long they have forgotten how they struggled with these issues when they started shooting and some are better teachers than others.
Let me give you my take on it. When you have proper technique in sustained fire, your arm will be stiff and your wrist will be stiff and you will learn to come down with the gun after recoil with the dot in the black after several thousand rounds of sustained fire. Therefore what the second master class shooter said was correct. The first one was also correct because until you have the confidence and the technique to make the dot come into the black after recoil almost automatically you are forced to rely on the dot to tell you when to start pulling the trigger. If I were you I would concentrate for a while in practice on getting good shots off as quickly as you can without being rushed by the ten second time limit in rapid fire. You will then learn to have confidence that the dot will be back in the black when the shot goes off. Until you have shot a lot of rounds that dot will be skating all over the target and occasionally will be out of your scope (at least with the 45) It just takes time to learn and to realize that you can't start pulling the trigger after the dot in holding still in the ten ring. You must be pulling it as it is moving into the black. Many high level shooters do not look at the dot. They look at the target. The reason for this is that the moving dot can cause you to freeze up and get chicken finger on the trigger. If you look at the target and only see the dot as something moving around in your scope you will have less trouble with a smooth execution of your trigger pull but it takes a lot of shots to gain that confidence. Isabel

Many high level shooters do not look at the dot. They look at the target. The reason for this is that the moving dot can cause you to freeze up and get chicken finger on the trigger


Sorry but I disagree 100% with that statement if you look at the target your done say hello to 6,7,8,and 9"s

hill987 wrote:Many high level shooters do not look at the dot. They look at the target. The reason for this is that the moving dot can cause you to freeze up and get chicken finger on the trigger


Sorry but I disagree 100% with that statement if you look at the target your done say hello to 6,7,8,and 9"s

Your arguement is not with me. It is with Brian Zins. If you go to one of his clinics he will tell you that he does not focus on the dot. He focuses on target and sees the dot against the target. This, by the way, is the exact opposite of the technique he recommends for iron sights where you focus on the front sight and not on the target. Hours of experimentation with my air pistol at home have convinced me that he is correct on both counts.

Ditto Zins looking at the target. After several posts by Brian and a few direct with him, I have changed to looking past the dot to the target. However your hold has to be pretty good to do so. And your eye must stay stable on the bull just as it does on the front iron sight. The rest is trigger control.

Thanks everyone, I think I have my answer now. I'll focus on the target and let my alignment bring my arm and the pistol back into position. If my alignment is correct then the red dot scope tube should return to the target.

I shot rifle before I took up BE Pistol. On my small bore rifle, I have a rear peep and a front aperture. The eye will naturally center the black in the front aperture (no dot necessary or allowed). So then with the pistol the eye should center the black in the red dot tube and all that is left is to center the dot while putting rearward pressure on the trigger.

Does this sound logical? I'm sure there are some of you out there that will not agree, but the principle seems sound. Besides, I think that Brian Zins would not be doing it unless it worked. Again, some of you will not agree with this at all. I'm new to this and the first thing I learned was that what works for me may not wzemork for you.

'I shot rifle before I took up BE Pistol. On my small bore rifle, I have a rear peep and a front aperture. The eye will naturally center the black in the front aperture (no dot necessary or allowed). So then with the pistol the eye should center the black in the red dot tube and all that is left is to center the dot while putting rearward pressure on the trigger. '

Beware the temptation to center the dot too perfectly. Because a lot of rifle shooters can do this with a rifle they think that they can also get the dot to hold perfectly still with a pistol. I am not going to say that it never happens but it rarely happens in bullseye because the dot is usually moving. Bullseye is a constant struggle to keep the dot moving towards the center of the bull while you keep the trigger moving.

Isabel, what I meant to say was to center the black in the scope tube. Then worry about the dot. I know every shooter has some arc of movement. I know to accept the movement. What I was referring to was with the rifle, your eye will naturally center the black in the front aperture, so it should work fine to let the arm and hand return to the proper alignment position and then (if you are concentrating on the target and not the dot) the black should be very close to being centered in the scope tube. Continue to focus on the black and let the red dot continue its arc of movement inside the black and hopefully inside the 10 ring.

For me, being new to BE, I just try to get it in the black and as close to the center as I can without forcing it one way or the other. Accept the movement and then try to pull the trigger straight back. A friend told me that shooting the 2700 will be the most difficult thing you'll ever do, but the most fun. I think he is right on both counts.

I do like the idea of focusing on the target and letting the dot do its thing (like I said, hopefully in the 10 ring). Thanks for the help. This is a great forum and I'm sure I'll be back asking for more help.

A friend of mine, who also just started, was shooting next to a Master last weekend and he ask the Master "What do you do about flinching". He said the Master told him "Don't do it". Man of few words I guess. Actually, he was just being funny. They are all good guys and willing to help. but I only see them once a month at the match.

"A friend of mine, who also just started, was shooting next to a Master last weekend and he ask the Master "What do you do about flinching". He said the Master told him "Don't do it". Man of few words I guess. Actually, he was just being funny. They are all good guys and willing to help. but I only see them once a month at the match."

Flinching can be corrected by lots of dry firing and some find that a roll trigger also helps. Isabel

Watching the sight during recoil wont help recovery and if you inadvertanly move your head while following the recoiling sight you will have destroyed the relationship between slligned sights and the shooting eye. Try to keep your eye focus where the alligned sights will reappear at the end of recovery is what I found to be best practice. Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:Watching the sight during recoil wont help recovery and if you inadvertanly move your head while following the recoiling sight you will have destroyed the relationship between slligned sights and the shooting eye. Try to keep your eye focus where the alligned sights will reappear at the end of recovery is what I found to be best practice. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Bill, in looking at so many of the helpful tidbits you've posted over time, I wonder if you've considered writing it all down somewhere in book form? Very helpful stuff. Thx.

I definitely don't have the eye speed to follow the front sight up anyway but have wondered about Larry's question too. One problem I do have is that I can perceive the front sight and slide coming toward me as they rise and often snap my head back reflexively as if something was thrown at me that has to be avoided. As a reflex, seems very hard to overcome.

Phidelphia, Thank you for the nice complement but there is a better source for pistol marksmanship available to all and one that I cannot than I can possibly improve on. Get in touch with the US Army marksmanship training unit and request their pistol manual. It contains some great information gleaned from the top guns in the unit. Good Shooting Bill Horton