multitasking

[roman]

'Multitasking' seems to have something to do with pistol target shooting. That is to say, we must "be focused on the front sight" (whatever that means); we must hold steadly the pistol; we must "align the rear and the front sights"; we must pull the trigger "smootly and continuosly"; etc. etc.
Of course, as we all know, there are problems when we try to do all the above, and perfectly, at the *same* time. In other words there is a problem about "ordering" in time, and there is a problem about "ordering" by importance (I remember many interesting discussions, here, about focusing first on the steady hold, or focusing first on pulling the trigger, etc.).
Now there are interesting papers, in general, not about pistol shooting, like
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2 ... brain.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/brain ... 00415.html
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... two-tasks/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -two-tasks

[luftskytter-]

Yes, this is true, and I've seen other references to some of these articles.
It also reflects old tradition and wisdom.
Teaching systems and textbooks have been based on this for a long time.
Maybe the first reference is Roger Ascham's textbook Toxophilus published in 1545 where he describes his "five points of Archery". These were: standing, nocking, drawing, holding and losing. Since then, instruction has been based on doing things in such a sequence where one seeks to establish and subconsciously maintain the basic actions while proceeding to the next one in order to only perform one conscious task at a time. Thus we establish a "ritual" of actions finally leading to the firing of the shot, which should not be an "action"........

Like Roman says, we end up with a couple of simultaneous tasks that may cause confusion. A Swedish archery coach told me about "trigger points" about 30 years ago. The idea is that one action triggers the next. Finally there is an interaction between squeezing the trigger and sight/target alignment. This process tends to become automatic, and to me it seems logical that the sight picture should control the action og slowly increasing pressure when pointing in the right direction.

[scerir]

The idea is that one action triggers the next. Finally there is an interaction between squeezing the trigger and sight/target alignment. This process tends to become automatic, and to me it seems logical that the sight picture should control the action of slowly increasing pressure when pointing in the right direction.

Yes, that point seems very interesting. I mean, the process (of releasing the shot, and specifically the action on the trigger) must be somehow automatic (or subconscious as many here say). I also think that 'the sight picture should [subconsciously] control the action of slowly increasing pressure'. I'm inclined to think that when we say "focused on the front sight" we say two different things: 1. the front sight must be as sharp as possible; 2. the mind (and not just the eyes) must be "focused on the front sight".

[lastman]

The point of subconscious thought patterns presents an interesting challenge to multitasking studies, similar to reflex actions.

The idea of behaviours becoming linked is more a reflex behaviour. For example if your press the trigger as your sights become aligned many, many, many time eventually the stimulus of sight alignment will trigger a reflex behaviour of pressing the trigger.

The best way to learn to multitask in shooting is lots of practice. I know when I am shooting that as soon as my hold steadies and my sights are aligned the shot will break. This is because the I have practiced that process many, many times and has become a reflex response.

As far as new shooters go, they have to work each point individually.

Good luck.

[2650 Plus]

Will you consider the possibility that shooters may be using sequencial tasking instead ? As in my example I build my shooting postion then run my mental review of my shot sequence. Next is my process of taking the correct grip . Then I raise thre pistol above the target [in NRA courses of fire ] and as I relax toward the aiming area , begin a steadily increasing pressure on the trigger. Next my concentration and eye focus moves to the issue of perfecting sight allignment. Soon after my concentration and eye focus has begun to correct any errors in the relationship between the sights the pistol fires. Follow thru is the result of deep concentration being interupted by the firing of the shot. So you see a consistant progression rather than multi tasking in delivering a shot on target. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[vin]

Mr. Horton,

I find it very useful to hear about your process. In your series of tasks that lead to the shot breaking, how does an abort happen?

I'm also interested in the key indicators for an abort, but that may be outside the topic of multitasking.

Thanks,
Vin

[luftskytter-]

One description is based on the idea of sequential tasking connected by "trigger points". The trigger points are typically "task correctly executed, proceed to next task". If you are not able to complete/execute a task within the normally alotted time span, the sequence will stop and it's time to abort the shot.

I guess for most shooters this will often be "staying on target to long without shot release, accuracy declining". Some of you have suggested counting to define this time span. I've tried it, and I can see it may work for some of you, at least maybe for establishing a routine. At present I just decide to abort when I perceive an uphill struggle rather than a natural process. Like some of you have said: if you're thinking about whether to abort the shot, it's time to abort!

[vin]

Thanks for the insight,
Vin

[2650 Plus]

I am outside the subject but am responding to Vin. The first signal for me to abort the shot comes when I think about anything but the progression I use to deliver the shot. External factors are a loss of focus on the front sight signaled bu the target turning black and sharp ,or an unsatisfactry hold,ie muscle twitches, or anything that seems wrong with the shot process. I try to repeat the sequence as exactly as I can and can usually detect most things that go wrong because they are different from my normal shot process. I cannot recommend that anyone try to shoot exactly the way I do because we are so different.but maybe there are some ideas that you can use. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[vin]

Thanks!
Vin

[lastman]

Will you consider the possibility that shooters may be using sequencial tasking instead ? As in my example I build my shooting postion then run my mental review of my shot sequence. Next is my process of taking the correct grip . Then I raise thre pistol above the target [in NRA courses of fire ] and as I relax toward the aiming area , begin a steadily increasing pressure on the trigger. Next my concentration and eye focus moves to the issue of perfecting sight allignment. Soon after my concentration and eye focus has begun to correct any errors in the relationship between the sights the pistol fires. Follow thru is the result of deep concentration being interupted by the firing of the shot. So you see a consistant progression rather than multi tasking in delivering a shot on target. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Very interesting...

However I tend to find that I perform best when things are happening together. For example as I am lowering into the aiming area, I am becoming increasingly more aware and focused on the sights. At the same time I am commencing the trigger press. Once I have arrived in the aiming area my full focus and attention is on the sights. I am still pressing the trigger, as my hold steadies and sights align the trigger break naturally.

I find that multi-tasking allows me to conserve my resources all of the way through the match, rather than dedicate myself to focussing on each step in the plan on its own.

[2650 Plus]

Lastman, we shoot the shot very much the same, And the differences may be more in semantics than in executio I am still not sure that I dissagree with any thing you have posted. Keep on shooting tens, my friend. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Wiley-X]

I try not to think. It's like executing a heel-toe down shift. If you think about anything other than slowing down you'll miss the shift, grind some metal off your gears, and not be in a good position for coming out of the turn. The same is true for boxing, riding a bike, playing the guitar . . . if you expect to master it, you have to reach a point where thought becomes desire and desire becomes action. You desire to turn left and it happens. You desire to play a chord and it happens. You desire to shoot the target and it happens. How does it happen? You really don't know anymore. The device has become an extension of yourself.

[Dev]

I was wondering if it was too early to ask about no mindedness in pistol shooting. Since I am a beginner I ask whether the seniors often get into a zone when they are no longer doing anything deliberately. The Zen archery type of theory of no mind? Pardon me shooting the bull but sometimes I love to hear about theory.

Regards,

Dev

[NB]

It is no theory. When you get to that stage you made it. your sub concious has taken over. You have turned a drill into an instinct. Ive shot over 20 tens in a row without thinking. Without thinking you r thinking. Everytime I train now I always say (and my wife will vouch for me) " This is to easy" Everytime I train now Im in the zone(zen if you perfer). I didnt shot tonight , I worked for 14 hrs and was to tired. I knew it would be a struggle and I would not be in the zone. Meaning only train when the training is good. This sport is so easy once you learn to shot a ten and at the same time stop thinking about. Just say after every ten " YEP I SHOOT THAT WAY,IT SURE IS EASY" I feel at first your shot plan is very important, you have to live by it. Eventally you grow up and dont even think about it anymore. BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN YOUR NOT REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I wish I knew how to write , hope you can make sense of what im trying to say. Im just beat tonight.

[luftskytter-]

Yep,
"Zen in the art of archery" got me started in shooting sports more than 30 years ago. First many years of archery, but recently mostly AP :-)

And yes,
shooting seems simple, we decide when, the routine is always the same, the elemements are few, and it's not very scary: your body stays at the shooting line.

Other sports and actions are more obviously automatic, are more complicated, happen faster and circumstances are often chaotic, dangerous and unpredictable, sometimes against "hostile opponents".

In action sports getting into "the Zone" may be slghtly different.

But I also once had a shooting acquaintance who tried skydiving and long distance running for some years before settling down with archery as the most challenging and satisfying activity!
Maybe not so simple after all?

.

[RB6]

I was wondering if it was too early to ask about no mindedness in pistol shooting

When Eric Buljang was coaching his Olympic team, he had T shirts made up this emblazoned on them


" NO STINKING THINKING "




..

[NB]

Now where thinking!

[vin]

From my perspective it is always too late to "talk about mindlessness".

What different people mean by "thinking" is quite broad and usually ill defined.
If I focus on the front sight am I thinking?
If I notice the bull is sharp and abort am I thinking?

[Jimmy32]

Yep,
"Zen in the art of archery" got me started in shooting sports more than 30 years ago. First many years of archery, but recently mostly AP :-)

And yes,
shooting seems simple, we decide when, the routine is always the same, the elemements are few, and it's not very scary: your body stays at the shooting line.

Other sports and actions are more obviously automatic, are more complicated, happen faster and circumstances are often chaotic, dangerous and unpredictable, sometimes against "hostile opponents".

In action sports getting into "the Zone" may be slghtly different.

But I also once had a shooting acquaintance who tried skydiving and long distance running for some years before settling down with archery as the most challenging and satisfying activity!
Maybe not so simple after all?

.

I used to do some cross country running. And I have experienced a few times towards the end of my running years, where my legs go on autopilot and I couldn't stop even if I wanted to (fortunately long runs so not a problem there)! There was an incredible sense of power that I could keep going past the end at 28KM. But this feeling seems more brought on by fatigue and being knackered. My mind could be thinking anything at all, my legs just did their own thing.

Now when shooting pistol, to get auto shooting going my mind must be in a different place from when I'm running. But perhaps I simply have yet to master the technique.