CCI Std. Vel. and FWB AW93

[Guest]

Is CCI Standard Velocity (#0035) "good enough" ammo for a Feinwerkbau AW93 manufactured a couple years ago? As in no jams, reasonably good accuracy, not too much recoil, no failed ignitions, etc.

[paulo]

The brass is a bit fat, maybe because of the hard wax, for the FWB but it might work fine if the chamber is a bit loose, the ammo is great for the price.

[Guest]

What's the diameter of those CCI rounds?

[paulo]

Don't know the exact diameter, just from experience, SK and Eley load freely, with CCI I sometimes have to force the slide to close when the first round goes into the chamber, it shoots well afterwards.
I like CCI very much for free pistol, and with a IZH 35M.
FWB AW93 works best with european ammo, just my experience.

[deadeyedick]

The brass case near the rim measures .223" . For what it is worth, all three AW93's I have owned over the years have worked well with CCI.
As has been mentioned in the past, there is some breech diameter variation in these guns, and the undersized ones need to be reamed and polished to function properly with this, and any other US ammo.
A regular contributor David Moore has performed this task many times when required.

[Guest]

I measured a few rounds of several brands of ammo including: Winchester T-22, Geco Rifle, S&B Standard, and Aguila SuperExtra where they all seemed to measured around .224" - .225" at the point of largest diameter. Dropping rounds on a vertical barrel all of them needed a slight push to completely seat in the chamber. None of them fully dropped in the chamber on its own weight.

I could only life fire the Geco Rifle and the S&B STD. Both worked flawlessly and the slide went home by itself without having to help it forward.

Should this indicate I won't have problems with that CCI SV?

[Scotty]

I used to have problem with cycling SV CCI in my daughters AW93.

After a very good clean it now cycles with no problems.

She still shoots matches with SK Pistol Match, but trains with CCI to help keep costs doen a little.

I shoot matches and train with CCI in my AW93 and have had no trouble.

[jipe]

I measured a few rounds of several brands of ammo including: Winchester T-22, Geco Rifle, S&B Standard, and Aguila SuperExtra where they all seemed to measured around .224" - .225" at the point of largest diameter.

You only measured low cost ammo, no european match grade ammo like Lapua, SK, RWS or Eley.

My experience is that these are smaller, Lapua, SK and RWS being the smallest, Eley is sligthly bigger.

But this diameter difference doesn't mean that the biggest won't work in your pistol, even if you need to push them to make them enter into the chamber. You have to try with your pistol.

Bigger ammo that need to be pushed to enter the chamber and pulled to be extracted are only problematic for free pistols with a Martini type breech, i.e. no sliding breech that push/pull the cartridge in/out.

[Guest]

You only measured low cost ammo

Boy, I don't know if it's the economy but I cannot afford to shoot the top-grade brands anymore... Even the SK (Lapua, Wolf) is becoming expensive and hard to find. I guess I could manage to shoot them at matches while reserving the low-grade stuff for training, but then I never found the extra accuracy they give justified as I never shot over 575 in my life.

I preffer to get a large batch of reliable, low-priced, ammo and get used to its behavior (usually heavier recoil) than buying some über-expensive ammo then having to limit my training to once in a blue moon. But I'm sure it's only me who's got to make ends meet. That being said, I'd sure preffer to shoot SK Pistol Match or its RWS counterpart all week long. I miss when I was able to shoot a brick of RWS Pistol Match a week and I found it affordable back then... but my salary didn't raise like ammo did.

For me, it's become a matter of shooting low-grade stuff only --anything that doesn't jam or gives me duds--or moving to air pistol... Why having an expensive AW93 then? Well, I find it balanced to my liking, I like the grip angle, the trigger, the sights, etc. After all, I remember having read somewhere ISSF 25m pistol disciplines are more a matter of good trigger release than pure accuracy.

[Tycho]

Can't see your problem, why are you drawing a line between "cheap" and "expensive" ammo? I'm using CCI SV in my MG2 all day long, groups as well as anything, very reliable, excellent recoil recovery...

[Guest]

There's this statement here above where someone said I only measured inexpensive, non-European (*1) non-match ammo. So I did my best trying to explain that I cannot afford to shoot such ammo and that some of the inexpensive ammo like the CCI you mention works perfectly well for me. I'm currently shooting Geco Rifle and I'm going to move to, either, CCI SV or Geco Pistol when my current ammo dries up. I don't see a problem there. Other than my initial question to whether someone had any first hand experiences with feeding CCI SV to his or her AW93 to which I'm plenty satisfied with the answers I got.

Anyway, thank you for your input. It's much appreciated. :-)

Actually, I'd like to know when it's adviced to use the European match ammo instead of the more economical ammo. First hand experiences and a methodology on how to measure this in a totally objective way would be highly appreciated.

*1 It's my understanding that the current Geco Rifle is made by Federal. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Isabel1130]

I use CCI SV in my AW 93 all the time. It has enough velocity to action the slide well in spite of the tight fit. Where I have had problems with ammo in my gun is if I change ammo without cleaning it pretty carefully. The worst possible combination for my particular gun is eley ammo in the gun after CCI SV without a pretty careful cleaning in between. Dirty gun plus a low velocity ammo is a bad choice in my opinion for a newer AW-93. I now brush the bore from the chamber end (I use a 243 brass rifle brush that is bent so that only about the length of a 22 casing goes in the chamber)and pull a couple of patches through before every match just to be sure. I also scrub the firing pin and wipe the chamber. I use Gunzilla for my cleaner as it is the best all around cleaner and lube I have found. It seems to give my guns pretty much everything they need to function in one bottle. Isabel

[Guest]

Thank you for your sharing your experience, Isabel!

How tight is the CCI ammo in your gun? Does it take much force to fully seat a round in the chamber?

Also, do your scores --and the reliability of your pistol--significantly improve with the use of Eley ammo in your matches? As I understand you shoot CCI SV in training and Eley in competitions.

[jipe]

There's this statement here above where someone said I only measured inexpensive, non-European (*1) non-match ammo.

I was just answering to your statement that all the ammo have the same diameter, not saying that you should use more expensive ammo's.

Actually, as far as I know, the diameter difference comes from where they are made: european made ammo have a smaller diameter than US ammo's.

Indeed, SK, even the cheapest of their line = standard +, become expensive.

But, it is possible to find some match ammo's at low price, I found Eley pistol match (old design yellow box) at a much lower price than the SK standard + !

To answer your question about CCI standard, I also use them in my Morini CM22M RF, they are very tight in the chamber of the Morini but work perfectly well, no malfunction at all. They are also relatively soft ammo what is good for match pistols that are not made to use high power ammo's. Several other cheap ammo's are more powerfull and should be avoided in match pistols.

[Guest]

Just curious, did you measure the diameter of some of that European match ammo? Sadly, I don't have any available to do that myself other than the economy priced Aguila which comes from an agreed CIP manufacturer--albeit located in Mexico.

But, it is possible to find some match ammo's at low price, I found Eley pistol match (old design yellow box) at a much lower price than the SK standard + !

You're lucky! :-)

Morini CM22M RF

Back when I was on the market looking for a new pistol I considered this Morini CM22M RF among other pistols like the Morini CM22M/ ALU, AW93... I discarded the CM22M RF because the frame sat so low in the grip that it interefered with my trigger finger and I discarded the other Morini pistols only because I liked the AW93 better. How's been your experience with the CM22M RF?

Several other cheap ammo's are more powerfull and should be avoided in match pistols

Could you, please, tell me which ones are those harmful cartridges? I guess it's all the high velocity stuff?

Thank you for sharing your ideas with me. Gros merci !

[Guest]

I could only find this blueprint of the 22LR cartridge:



I'm not even sure if this is a CIP or SAAMI specs drawing. Does someone on here have a better drawing to share with all of us?

[Isabel1130]

Thank you for your sharing your experience, Isabel!

How tight is the CCI ammo in your gun? Does it take much force to fully seat a round in the chamber?

Also, do your scores --and the reliability of your pistol--significantly improve with the use of Eley ammo in your matches? As I understand you shoot CCI SV in training and Eley in competitions.

I have pretty much gone to using CCI SV all of the time as in Conventional Pistol, my main event, even at the 50 yard line I get good enough accuracy with the CCI SV. I did use Lapua Pistol King last year at Camp Perry but do not feel that the almost triple cost adds anything noticible to my score. The CCI SV is not that tight if the gun is clean and operating the slide release seats it easily. The CCI SV will not drop right in but requires a slight push if you are seating it manually. Isabel

[Guest]

That's exactly what I needed to know, thank you Isabel! :-)

[jipe]

Just curious, did you measure the diameter of some of that European match ammo? Sadly, I don't have any available to do that myself other than the economy priced Aguila which comes from an agreed CIP manufacturer--albeit located in Mexico.

No, I didn't measure them but tried them in my Morini CM22M RF and Hammerli 160 special. Both have a tight chamber. The SK (standard + yellow box and pistol match green box) and RWS (pistol match, green box) can be dropped and enter fully into the chamber, no effort needed at all. The Eley pistol match (old type, yellow box) need a slight effort to enter. CCI need to be pushed to enter and are not ejected out of the Hammerli (the extractor of this pistol only extract the fired cartridge about 5mm out of the chamber, it is the inertia that must complete the extraction/ejection but the CCI is too tight and must be manually extracted with the nail).

Back when I was on the market looking for a new pistol I considered this Morini CM22M RF among other pistols like the Morini CM22M/ ALU, AW93... I discarded the CM22M RF because the frame sat so low in the grip that it interefered with my trigger finger and I discarded the other Morini pistols only because I liked the AW93 better. How's been your experience with the CM22M RF?

Well, it is very positive. The pistol works fine, its trigger is a pleasure to use, excellent balance with minimal muzzle jump. Personally, I like the low frame and raked grip but of course this is a matter of taste, some may not like it at all.

Several other cheap ammo's are more powerful and should be avoided in match pistols

Could you, please, tell me which ones are those harmful cartridges? I guess it's all the high velocity stuff?

Yes, indeed, ammo's like Federal American Eagle, Winchester... Even if they work in a match pistol, after some time they can cause some parts to break.

[Guest]

I don't know if the guest with the orignal question saw the Extensive .22LR ammo test. I found it on the bottom page 8. It might be at the top of 9 by now but anyways, it worth a look. Just the other I took my old Victor out and hand benched a 10 shot group the size of my thumb nail with the cheapest stuff you can buy. So it ain't the ammo or the gun. As far as prices, I remember when I wasn't going to pay $650 for that new Pardini in the show chase. I think we're getting old, or am I speaking for myself?