TargetTalk

I'm using SP20 RRS in .22 for several years (and about 8k of ammo). Recently I've diagnosed a problem with firing pin (some misfires) as well needed to change the screw from the recoil buffer at the back (was broken, I've replaced this temporarily with ordinary one from the warehouse).

What I've done:
- disassembled the gun,
- fully cleaned; I've done this a lot of times, but this was the first time to fully clean the chamber with the brass brush,
- replaced firing pin, and the bolt assembly with new ones,
- changed the recoil buffer screw (with use of Loctite),
- set-up the pistol as usual, with screws tightened as usual.

What happened:
Despite proper firing (no more misfires), I've noticed that without changing the sights I hit the target much higher. Really much. I've corrected this with the rear sight and this would be nothing special but...

What the problem is:
I'm at the end of the sight correction range:
- I would love to have at least one or two clicks more (to go lower on the target)
- I'm not able to aim right in the middle of the target, it is only possible to have a proper sights set-up for aiming below the target

The rear sights is OK, have 140 clicks in full range. I can't understand what the problem is. It s more or less OK for me at the moment. I can try to alter the angle barrel is mounted in the frame by inserting something between those, but don't like workarounds... Can anyone help me with finding what the problem and the solution is? Any advice?

Rgrds,
Greg

I've only seen that with old SP20 that had the light barrel shroud (called "sharky" here), not with the RRS. There the problem was that the shroud only uses 2 screws, so if you put too much torque on them, you'd angle the whole thing upwards. Interestingly, the SP20 then still works, even if the angle of the barrel is wrong - unlike the Pardini, which doesn't. The only thing I can imagine is that the barrel is loose inside the shroud or that the whole block isn't linear to the frame. On the other hand, you are talking about so much deviation that it should be visible just by looking at the pistol. I can't imagine a .22 building up enough adhesion in the chamber to bring the effect you describe. Is the barrel crown ok?

I've got RRS and 3 screws mounting barrel to the frame. Tried to tighten one (bottom) little more... rather with small effect (let say a few rings change on the olympic target, but not half of the target).

The barrel is stable in the front block, which looks the same (linear to the frame). I'm not sure if it is possible that barrel have changed it's angle in the front block?

Barrel crown also seems to be OK. The change effect is vertical only. No problem with target shooting and shots concentration. I would even say that I've got higher scores lately ;-)

The grip isn't touching the rear sight is it?

Or that the front sight has gone down? Has the RRS the same rotating front sight as earlier SP20? If that screw gets loose...

Checked both already.

Grip wasn't touching the rear sight (at the moment I've got the rear sight at the top high position to correct super high shots; thought that is a sight problem, but it is working OK, nothing special in it).

The front sight is rotating "triangle", but there is special immersion for the screw, so there is only one correct position to mount this (when the sight base (circle) is in line with the front block). Put this out and mounted once again - nothing changed.


I don't have idea what's wrong ;-( Should be something with sights or barrel, first impression was "I have changed firing pin only", but as I don't believe could influence anything - I haven't tried to replace the pin with the old one.

I know that on the .32 the position/tension of the recoil buffer can change the way the gun performs.

I'm not sure if it is the same on the .22 but, as you have changed the buffer screw, could this be an issue.

Greg wrote:...at the moment I've got the rear sight at the top high position to correct super high shots...

???

Wind the sight down to lower the group

My mistake - the rear sight is in maximum down position of course, and still not touching the grip.

The recoil buffer is completely the same as in .32, but this may change the recoil and "user experience" while shooting rather than target hitting or not. As I used other screw there was no change on the target. BTW: screw supplied by Walther differs a little from the original, but more similar than the one I used before.

It's beginning to sound like you need to get the gun looked at by a competant gunsmith.

Do you have a shooting mate? You could change guns and see how they perform, high/low? Next thing if you both have SP20RRS is to change parts.
Kent

Make sure the grip screw has been re-tightened properly. If the grip is slightly loose, the shots will go awry. Happened to me a few months back.

Is your sight intact?

encountered this once before and there was a little screw insight the sight that was broken.

the shots came all in one position very off the center

Got some (bad?) news...

I've tried to change parts with friend's SP20 RRS. We have changed the barrels with whole front blocks (except screws). We have not altered sights configuration.

- I've shot with my gun & friend's barrel - reaching target as usual (same aiming, same scores) ;-o

- he shot with his gun & my barrel - claimed that when he aims below the black, hits the center, although he has sights calibrated for speedshooting (centered) - so shooting higher, but still those are about 5 rings, not half of the target;


Now I'm beeing puzzled even more. As I got same scores on both barrels - I suppose that problem is somewhere between the frame & the front block, like "my frame is shorter at the top"... I haven't noticed anything special on the frame, but maybe I'm not looking where I should ;-/

PS. The grip is tightened properly. Checked several times, still the same on the target ;-(

@madmull
Sight is OK, all the clicks it's moving up/down. At the moment (extremely down) when looking to the pistol only you see that it's abnormal position.

...going closer... checked pistols once again....

What I have discovered:
A. Some of last clicks on the rear sight don't move it (visibly), about 10, more or less...
This could mean that I have changed the sight in my .22 for about 15 clicks and not 25 (if the last 10 don't change it).

B. I've checked my Hammerli in .32. I have 10 clicks more to lower the sight (ouch!).


So... even if this would meean similar situation for me, there are two issues:
1. I can't set the sight "in point", meaning hitting exactly at point that I aim. Needed for speedshooting, but not so important for me.

2. Even if the change on the sight (counting clicks) was not so big, still there was a change after disassembling, cleaning, replacing the firing pin and reassembling the gun. In the last I had the possibility to set the sights "in point".

Today I have checked everything once again and still have no idea what went wrong.

Leaving the problem what have changed, I've got situation that can't effectively use the rear sight. I plan to buy higher front sight (http://www.carl-walther.de/index.php?co ... roduct=661 version) and use this as a workaround. At the moment I have the "+1mm" version, so switching to "+2m" should give me over 10cm change on the target. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for your support.
Rgrds,
G.

Hey Greg
I seem to have the same problem. After cleaning the gun it always shoots higher than before
have you ever checked the fit of the cartridge on the buffer, that the firing pin hits the cartrigde correctly.
I have my SP20 RRs for five year now and app. 1 year ago it started, that a specific type of Cartridge did not work and the mark of the firing pin was barely to see on the jacket.
We discovered that the barrel did not sit anymore correctly in the gun because the two upper screws of the barrel holder were deeper in Receiver resulting in the barrel pointing upwards.
Maybe this is the same with ours?

A few month ago I bought a used SP20 and I had it serviced by Roger Geissbühler (on recommendation of Umarex/Walther in Germany). Mr. Geissbühler is a former Hämmerli technician. He told me about the problem you described. You've very likely tightened the barrel to stongly and now it's bend causing the high shots. If you use google and search for Roger Geissbühler in Rotkreuz you'll get to his website and his contact details. I'm sure he speeks English very well...

Best regards,

MSchaefer