TargetTalk

When I shoot 2 eyes open, I sometimes see two rear sights. VERY annoying and might cause aiming failures due to distraction.
Than I tried a headband with a piece of targetcard in front of my left eye.
I didnt see double sights anymore bút I must say it felt a bit weird, a bit more unstable. Maybe it takes some getting used to, maybe my right eye isnt good enough to do it alone?
Do you use eye blends/glasses?
What are yr experiences with those?

Even with air pistol, I always shoot with at least clear plastic safety glasses. The easy fix to the double image problem is to apply a piece of translucent (frosted) tape on the lens for the non-aiming eye. It doesn't have to be large, just big enough to block the sights & target from view. If you make it only as large as this, you will be able to see around it when loading & working with things on the bench.

If you stand in front of a mirror and carefully watch the size of the pupil in the aiming eye while you cover and uncover the non-aiming eye, you will see small changes in the amount of dilation. This shows that the eyes are somewhat coupled. This is why, in general, you do NOT want to use anything opaque. This allows different amounts of light into the eyes, which can disturb the ability of the aiming eye to focus and deal with the amount of light striking it.

If you want to get fancy, you can get special purpose shooting glasses that come with flip up transparent blockers. They have other features for the aiming eye (lenses, filters & apertures) that can help when you are shooting under varying light conditions or your aiming eye needs correction to focus on the sights.

Another method is to buy some of the small Post It Notes and cut them in half through the sticky side. You now have two pads. Just peal off a sheet and stick it on your non shooting eye lens. No sticky residue. Small enough to still let light in but blocks the view.

Another method is to buy some of the small Post It Notes and cut them in half through the sticky side. You now have two pads. Just peal off a sheet and stick it on your non shooting eye lens. No sticky residue. Small enough to still let light in but blocks the view.

One trick to using translucent "Scotch" tape is to fold over ~ 5 or 6 mm at one end back on itself. That gives you a conveniemt handle to peel it off when you are done.

If you like the Post-It approach, you can get translucent Post-It "flags" all pre-cut:

http://www.3m.com/us/office/postit/prod ... ft_ss.html

One end is non-stick and colored (you could trim them down a good bit), and the larger end is translucent & uses the Post-it adhesive.

I've been using Scotch brand "Mystic" tape for years, and have never had a problem with residue, even after leaving it on lenses for months. My wife & daughter wear corrective glasses, and with the tab trick, they use the same piece of tape for months. They just stick it to any smooth clean surface in their gun box. You can also now get the frosted Scotch tape in a removable Post-It style adhesive:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... ent_tapes/

Lots of options to suit you personal preferences. I still recommend not using anything that blocks ANY light getting to the eye.

Maybe the piece of card I used was too big than. How big should it be approx?

yana wrote:Maybe the piece of card I used was too big than. How big should it be approx?

A maximum of 30mm wide under ISSF rules.

Shooting with two eyes open just take some time to get use to. It will not be long before you get used to it. The reason I shoot with two eyes open is, God forbid, I have to shoot a real pistol in self-defense in a pinch, I can shoot accurately, and not "see two targets".

As for ISSF-sports shooting with an eye patch, the reason eye patch should be translucent is because our eye pupil size is control by sympathetic system. Sympathetic system does not have individual eye pupillary muscle control. Both eye pupil sizes are coupled. If you darken one eye with dark patch, the sympathetic reflex will dilate the pupils to get more light in. Now both eyes are dilated. Once your shooting eye dilate, the image will be more blurry. Therefore, dark patch is not good.

Same thing happens when you are having an eye exam. You will be given a black patch to cover one eye, and be asked to see through the other eye. Guess what happens? You cover one eye with dark patch, in a dark room, your examined eye pupil dilate together with the patched eye, and you can not see well initially.

Same analogy to dark eye patch for ISSF-shooting. Not good.

I would just learn to shoot with two eyes open. It is really not a big deal. The Chinese shooting federation have done some simple studies on this, it is NOT better to shoot with patch on. It is too easy to focus on the target with a patch on. If you ever have the chance to see photos of the Chinese air pistol national, you will see hundreds of shooter, I mean hundreds of shooters in the Olympic hall, and very very few have patch on.


When individual has a patch on, he probably could not tell if it is truely beneficial or not. But when the Chinese have done with a big co-hort study and found patch to be not that beneficial, there you have it.

I am in complete agrement with seamaster. I knew nothing about the chinese not shooting with eye [atches but that was the very first training I did to prepare myself for top level shooting. It took less than a month to teach my nonshooting eye that my total interest was only the eye that was alligning the sights. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Russians did not do a study on this patch vs. two eyes issue?

I find it easier, both to do and to teach, using a blinder. It's true a lot of Chinese shooters don't use blinders, but my feeling is that the blinders are still beneficial for most people, and certainly when they are starting out. By all means try with and without a blinder, but seeing a double sight picture is not good.

Rob.

I've always shot two eyes open, so I'm really used to that. But seeing two rear sights is REALLY annoying! I do seem to shoot better scores without a blend though. For now at least.

yana wrote:I've always shot two eyes open, so I'm really used to that. But seeing two rear sights is REALLY annoying! I do seem to shoot better scores without a blend though. For now at least.

You really need to test both out properly to fully investigate both options as there will always be an affect purely because something has changed. I would suggest you shoot with a blind for at least a couple of weeks - and at least 4 or 5 sessions in total. If you shoot once a week then test for a month. You really cannot make proper comparisons without a fairly extensive test.

Rob.

You can't tell the difference between one eye patched vs. two eyes open until you do a prospective co-hort study involving quite a few shooters, over a reasonably long study time.

Granted it is much easier to shoot one eye patched as a beginner. But once you take higher level shooters (provincial/state level shooters with score >560), and test them "vis-a-vis", patch vs. non-patch, patch turns out to be extra equipment that is extraneous.

The coaches at Chinese Shooting Federation done it. They prefer two eyes open to one eye patched.

I was bored this evening so thought I'd have a look at how many were shooting Air Pistol with blinders in the finals of the four World Cups this year.

The only thing these figures prove is that some people use blinders and others don't. There is no firm concesus on which is best; people use what they (or their coaches) are happiest with.

Changwon
Men, 5 with, 3 without
Women, 5 with, 3 without

Beijing
Men, 5 with, 3 without
Women, 7 with, 1 without

Munich
Men, 6 with, 2 without
Women, 5 with, 3 without

Milan
Men, 6 with, 2 without
Women, 5 with, 3 without

yana wrote:When I shoot 2 eyes open, I sometimes see two rear sights. VERY annoying and might cause aiming failures due to distraction.
Than I tried a headband with a piece of targetcard in front of my left eye.
I didnt see double sights anymore bút I must say it felt a bit weird, a bit more unstable. Maybe it takes some getting used to, maybe my right eye isnt good enough to do it alone?
Do you use eye blends/glasses?
What are yr experiences with those?

1 Both eyes open is best (for lots of reasons) - closing the non-shooting eye is not a good thing.
2 Some shooters do not need an occluder for the non-shooting eye, whereas some do
3 Any occluder should be translucent (not opaque) so that both eyes receive the same amount of light

on item 2: if a shooter can cope without an occluder, it is generally accepted that doing without is best, but not all can. The fact that a number of chinese shooters do not use an occluder is probably more related to a propensity for short-sightedness (and the younger age of the shooters?)

In all cases, eye protection should be worn.

Spencer

The reason Chinese/Korean shooters shoot with both eyes open is simply because they are taught to shoot with both eyes open.

The Japanese, on the other hand, had followed the traditional European one eye patched method. Their results have been quite unremarkable.

As noted in the previous post, of the past 4 ISSF finals, there are 64 finalists.
Only 20 of those 64 (<30%) shoot with both eyes open. But of the finalist champions, 5 out of 8 (>60%) shoot with both eyes open.

May be the Asians are on to something. It might be as simple as shooting with both eyes open.

One thing I have noticed is many people although they have done everything right handed all their life, are actually left eye dominant. You would be supprised at how many kids I come accross that are trying to shoot right handed, but are left eye dominant.

This could possibly cause a double image. Have you checked your eye dominance, very simple check, or do you know how to check it?

You should be shooting with your dominant eye, not what you thinkg your dominant hand is.

One easy way is to hold up your hands and make a small hole between your hands when you hold them together at arms length, then look at someone thru the small hole, and ask them what eye they see thru the hole. There are other simple methods also, you can probably do a google search on eye domance check and get all kinds of ways without cluttering up this board with everybodys favorite method.

Hope that makes sense.

Mark Skeels

Yes I checked eye dominance long time ago, its right eyed.
Actually, I'm a leftie with writing, eating etc, but I shoot r/h, and my strongest side also is right. My best eye is also right, and I use the scissors r/h as well. I cán write well r/h as well, but its slower cause I never do it.
I found out that when inhailing, and raising the pistol, if I focus on the rear sight instead of the front, I dont see, or dont notice, the double sight.
When I lower the pistol, I change focus to the front sight and all is ok.
Puts more strain on the eyes maybe, to change, but at léast no double sights..
My eyesight isnt very strong though(+2.25 /+2.75), they're used to doing everything together.

Windout targets become very, very distracting when shooting with 2 eyes open - electronic targets not a problem. Until all competitions use electronic targets I'll use an occulder