TargetTalk

Other than a local group of us who compete on an informal basis, drugs in the system are not a concern (as in doping).
However, recently I did myself a slight back injury and I was prescribed a muscle relaxant to ease the pain.
What I found interesting/disconerting was that for the two weeks I was on them, and a week or so following I couldn't shoot worth crap.
At first I though there was something amiss with my AP. I was lucky to keep a 5 shot group on the paper let along in the 9/10 rings.
Had the AP checked out....nothing wrong, and then about a week after I was off the drugs my accuracy slowly, over the course of a week or so returned.
Always be careful what you put in your body.

I have found that my shooting seems to be affected by changes in my doses of Thyroid medication. A lot of things will affect your hold and your balance, not just prescription drugs. Caffine is one of them. :-) Isabel

Isabel1130 wrote:I have found that my shooting seems to be affected by changes in my doses of Thyroid medication. A lot of things will affect your hold and your balance, not just prescription drugs. Caffine is one of them. :-) Isabel

Good advice!

With the misspelling and "drugs" in the subject, I thought this was spam, until you responded, Isabel.

I take too many prescription drugs but hell at 78 they are keeping me going and still shooting as badly as ever. I do find a correlation between caffeine and blood sugar and my shooting. The blood sugar directly affects my eyes and the caffeine my hold. On the other hand I shot a Bullseye score of 292, a PB for me, I was on a potent cough medication, I don't remember my feet touching ground that night. I have since archived the targets for posterity. "Doc"

Personnally I found that I could win while ill but shot poorly on drugs as simple as aspirin. Something about drugs in my system changed too many things that I depended upon to control the shot process, I found the greatest detriment existed in the rythym I tried to use to execute the shot sequence. My vision also changed and alligning the sights was far more difficult. Recovery and hold changed also. My response to drugs is simple. Dont change your body in an effort to shoot better. Stabilize every thing as much as you can and dont even bother to try and find a crutch. Good Shooting Bill Horton

I was having to shoot doped up on Dramamine (nerves and car sickness on the way to the match) and then I found that Benedryl is really almost the same thing. I now take one benedryl before I go to bed and have not spent the early morning car ride to the match throwing up since. I sleep better too. I think most of the Benedryl has probably worn off by the time I pick up the gun. The car sickness was also keeping me from eating before I went to a match and I am sure that affected my shooting also. There are some drugs such as statins for high blood pressure that will actually make you shoot better as they will slow your heart rate and improve your hold. For those of you older people who might want to shoot international competitions, you might want to think about getting on another blood pressure medication as statins are banned. If you were to be drug tested at a big match you would fail. Isabel.

What was the former Bronze Medalist in MAP in Beijing caught with in his system?

Oz wrote:What was the former Bronze Medalist in MAP in Beijing caught with in his system?

I believe that it was statins (beta blockers) Propranolol is a beta blocker which is what he had in his system. Those are about the only thing you could take that might actually improve your shooting other than possibly blood doping.

bobtodrick wrote:Other than a local group of us who compete on an informal basis, drugs in the system are not a concern (as in doping).
However, recently I did myself a slight back injury and I was prescribed a muscle relaxant to ease the pain.
What I found interesting/disconerting was that for the two weeks I was on them, and a week or so following I couldn't shoot worth crap.
At first I though there was something amiss with my AP. I was lucky to keep a 5 shot group on the paper let along in the 9/10 rings.
Had the AP checked out....nothing wrong, and then about a week after I was off the drugs my accuracy slowly, over the course of a week or so returned.
Always be careful what you put in your body.

Hi Bob, I found the same to be true with me. For many moons I was taking
2-3 doses of Vicodin or Norco(same as Vicodin only safer..no Tylenol) a day
for almost 3 years. I noticed that I was shakey and could not hold the cross hairs
during FT matches. I purposely was waiting for at least an hour after the
acceleration effect to wear off before shooting...to no avail, I still shook.
This shaking did not affect my pistol shooting as much as rifle shooting;
but it was there, so I would skip the Vicodin for a couple of days and then
start AP training again.

I have recovered, to a different stage; so now I don't need or take the Vicodin/Norcos anymore.

Tony G

Isabel1130 wrote:

Oz wrote:What was the former Bronze Medalist in MAP in Beijing caught with in his system?

I believe that it was statins (beta blockers) Propranolol is a beta blocker which is what he had in his system. Those are about the only thing you could take that might actually improve your shooting other than possibly blood doping.

Statins are completely different chemicals to beta blockers and are used to control lipid levels (beta blockers are for blood pressure) - I think the guy had propranolol in his system which is a beta blocker. If you're ever unsure what's allowed in a competition environment, then your governing body should have the database online or a link to it, that you can search.

NB/ Statins appear not to be on the banned list (I just checked simvastatin).

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Isabel1130 wrote:

Oz wrote:What was the former Bronze Medalist in MAP in Beijing caught with in his system?

I believe that it was statins (beta blockers) Propranolol is a beta blocker which is what he had in his system. Those are about the only thing you could take that might actually improve your shooting other than possibly blood doping.

Statins are completely different chemicals to beta blockers and are used to control lipid levels (beta blockers are for blood pressure) - I think the guy had propranolol in his system which is a beta blocker. If you're ever unsure what's allowed in a competition environment, then your governing body should have the database online or a link to it, that you can search.

NB/ Statins appear not to be on the banned list (I just checked simvastatin).

Rob.

I stand corrected. Since I have seen them linked together so often I assumed they were the same thing. Isabel.

Propranalol eh!---Mebbe I could get my Cardiologist to put me back those----hm-m-m-m-m! "Doc"

I used to be on BBlockers while shooting under NRA rules . . . to compete internationally under ISSF/USAS rules, I had to switch to a combination of other drugs (untreated, my BP causes debilitating migraines).

1. Man, those Beta Blockers *really* help shooting (at the high end . . . probably not worth it for less than 565ish AP shooters)

2. Man those Beta Blockers *really* help with high BP (and a lot of other positive side effects as well). We have tried a whole bunch of different "allowed" drugs . . . they all suck. And come with bad side effects, not good side effects like the beta blockers. My doc sez my Type II diabetes can probably be tied back to my having to give up the beta blockers (I know, it's pretty complicated; lot of recent research on the tie-ins between high cholesterol, high BP, and adult onset diabetes)

Hey, it's all about the trade-offs . . . I'd rather be able to compete under the "anti doping rules" than stay healthy. Hmmm that's weird; in order to follow the "anti-doping" rules I have to take 6 pills a day instead of 1!

Steve Swartz

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:Hey, it's all about the trade-offs . . . I'd rather be able to compete under the "anti doping rules" than stay healthy. Hmmm that's weird; in order to follow the "anti-doping" rules I have to take 6 pills a day instead of 1!

Nice! When discussions about the sacrifices people make for their hobbies, this example will be near the top of the list.

The only drugs I've experimented with:

1) Tylenol. My shoulder/elbow is constantly sore (which indicates inflammation of course). Under advisement of a previous top 10 shooter who also experienced this, he said I had to take at least 500gm of Tylenol before I shoot. He's very much into the physiology of shooting and explained that muscular inflammation reduces the ability for nerves to transmit information as efficiently and effectively. As it turns out, I shoot MUCH better when I take 2 Tylenol 1.5 hours before I shoot.

2) I've been playing with Vitamin B. Probably not the right stuff or even in quantities significant enough for affect. The only noticeable difference I've seen so far is bright orange pee pee.

Oz

Oz wrote:

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:Hey, it's all about the trade-offs . . . I'd rather be able to compete under the "anti doping rules" than stay healthy. Hmmm that's weird; in order to follow the "anti-doping" rules I have to take 6 pills a day instead of 1!

Nice! When discussions about the sacrifices people make for their hobbies, this example will be near the top of the list.

The only drugs I've experimented with:

1) Tylenol. My shoulder/elbow is constantly sore (which indicates inflammation of course). Under advisement of a previous top 10 shooter who also experienced this, he said I had to take at least 500gm of Tylenol before I shoot. He's very much into the physiology of shooting and explained that muscular inflammation reduces the ability for nerves to transmit information as efficiently and effectively. As it turns out, I shoot MUCH better when I take 2 Tylenol 1.5 hours before I shoot.

2) I've been playing with Vitamin B. Probably not the right stuff or even in quantities significant enough for affect. The only noticeable difference I've seen so far is bright orange pee pee.

Oz

Hey OZ, just out of curiosity why are you taking Tylenol instead of something like Ibuprofin or Naprox Sodium? The only reason I ask is that all the doctors and PAs that I have gone to tell me that tylenol works pretty well in children but for some reason is a very poor choice for pain relief and joint and muscle stiffness in adults. If you have an allergy to the others I could understand it but if I take tylenol it is even less effective than drinking a cup of coffee. Isabel

Isabel1130 wrote:Hey OZ, just out of curiosity why are you taking Tylenol instead of something like Ibuprofin or Naprox Sodium? The only reason I ask is that all the doctors and PAs that I have gone to tell me that tylenol works pretty well in children but for some reason is a very poor choice for pain relief and joint and muscle stiffness in adults. If you have an allergy to the others I could understand it but if I take tylenol it is even less effective than drinking a cup of coffee. Isabel

It's interesting you say that! I have no allergy or negative reaction to the other options you mentioned. There have been several times when I thought to myself that Ibuprofen would make more sense for muscle inflammation, but I never tried it. I'll do some tests and maybe get away with a smaller dosage of a more appropriate drug.

Oz

Bob-Riegl wrote:I take too many prescription drugs but hell at 78 they are keeping me going and still shooting as badly as ever. I do find a correlation between caffeine and blood sugar and my shooting. The blood sugar directly affects my eyes and the caffeine my hold. On the other hand I shot a Bullseye score of 292, a PB for me, I was on a potent cough medication, I don't remember my feet touching ground that night. I have since archived the targets for posterity. "Doc"

Hi Doc, Are you diabetic by any chance? Caffeine doesn't seem to make a big difference in my Bullseye shooting, but I just got a new prescription (bifocals) and also got a special iron sights prescription to see the front sight. Last week, I shot late in the afternoon, and I had to swap back to my driving prescription to see the front sight. I haven't shot since, so I don't know what the cause was (Yet).

Mike
Wichita KS

Isabel1130 wrote: The car sickness was also keeping me from eating before I went to a match and I am sure that affected my shooting also. Isabel.

When my father took me flying in his small plane, when I was 12 or so, the first mandament was "have a good breakfast".

If you experience motion sickness under normal conditions (like in a car), try a moderately full stomach, but don't fill it with the normal bacon and eggs american fare. too much fat. Try some bread, coffee and light stuff with less fat.