TargetTalk

Can anyone give me an advice on which rifle is better. My daughter wants to get into shooting sport and asked me to get her a rifle. After searching on-line I narrowed my search to CM-2 Russian made by Izhmash (adult version w/ 26.8" barrel, peep sight, $600 new) and Kimber Model 82 Government (25" barrel, peep sight, adj. trigger $600 new). Since both models technically look similar it would be nice to compare both rifles based on grouping - but this info is not available.
Thank You

What sort of Competition will she be shooting? If it's just going to be 50' 3P, then neither rifle would be my first choice. Is she petite, or tall? How old is she?

Need more Info

Roy McClain
(404) 227-2272 cell
www.olemillrange.org

She is an entry level shooter , but I hope she will end up with 50 yards 3P . She is 13 years old and tall (5'6'' and growing). I do not think that a junior size rifle will be a good long term investment. I also know that there are many really good rifles out there (Anschutz, Feinwerkbau, Walther etc) but they cost way too much $$$.
My logic was to get her a good mid-level target rifle without spending a fortune.

I was a member of a sport team back in USSR (1984-1988) shooting .22cal pistols and as I remember all our top rifle shooters were using CM-2 for 50m 3P (because we didn't have any other choice of rifles).

The Kimber 82-G is a VERY heavy rifle for a youth shooter.
I have one that is really chopped that my oldest uses for silhouette at 10.2 lbs

I also have some of the CM-2's which are surprizingly VERY accurate, just over an inch at 100 meters (in a tunnel, no wind, using SK STD Plus ammo)

We have the CM-2 Cadets which are shorter barrel length and appropriately lighter. I've used a Medesha extension tube on one of these to get one of my shooters a bit of extra sight radius without the added weight.
Scott Medesha will (and prefers) to custom machine the adapter for these .... I use a diameter of 0.748 inches and get the 10" tube.
I then use one of our spare Daisy 887 front sights on the tube.

For 3-P stick with either the long CM-2 or the cadet .... and don't worry, you'll be buying a much more expensive rifle in a few years if she sticks with it! That's just the way it goes

The CM-2 is a good starter ... if she can handle the extra weight, go ahead and get the adult model

I found used CM-2 from CDNN Investments for $299. The guy on the phone (05/26/09) said that the averall quality of CM-2 they have ranges from average to good but rifles come without any accessories or parts. When I asked him to e-mail some pictures, he politely refused saying that a computer will generate serial number of the rifle that I will end up with (if I decide to buy).

Has anyone bought CM-2 from CDNN recently? What is the condition your rifle came in ???????????????

I got ours from MT Guns and am very happy with the ones we got (new).

New will come with sights, extra rear apertures, extra front apertures and some cleaning gear

Do the CDNN ones come with sights as the rear dovetails are a bit different than normal and would take some work to fit a different rear sight

UKRBOND,

I bought a new CM-2 from Mac Tilton and am happy with the way it shoots.
It shoots much better than I do at the moment. But, one thing to know about the russian rifles is that they use non standard sizes for their accessories.

While this may seem a fairly small thing it can be somewhat frustrating as you try to add accessories like a decent handstop, a palm rest, an adjustable iris for the rear sight, additional inserts or an iris for the front sight. While the front rail is relatively simple to change out it is still somewhat of a hassle.

My suggestion would be to call Mac Tilton and see if he has a used target rifle that would fit your needs and your budget. I think he has ALOT of used target rifles available and is very knowlegeable. Not having to perform the upgrades on the CM-2 would make life easier and less expensive in the long run. (I've spent as much customizing my CM-2 as I paid for the rifle, but I like it and will have it forever).

Only you can judge whether or not your daughter can comfortably hold a 12+ lb rifle like the Adult CM-2 through the course of a match. If it wouldn't be comfortable for her, then a Junior rifle may be better place to start. As she progresses add the bloop tube for a longer sight radius equal to an adult model and the length of pull and cheek piece can be adjusted as well. A used Anschutz junior model may hold it's value better than a CM-2 (I've seen very few used CM-2's for sale) allowing you to "trade" it in on a more advanced rifle when she progresses beyond the juniors capabilities.

There is a lot of information on the older CM-2 & Urals at http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/fo ... .php?f=178
From what i've seen all most all of the rifles have shot well. If you read through the stickies at the top you'll see the different versions of the CM-2/URALS for sale at CDNN

Hope this helps

Ptarmigan

Thank you guys for your replies. The rimfirecentral.com is really a very good source of information about Russian made target rifles (CM-2, Ural etc.)
I will probably buy a new CM-2 to avoid getting a used one with a side mounted rear sight (just in case if I'll decide to put a scope in the future).
The lowest price so far is at MT Guns: $585+$15s&h. Does anyone know a cheaper source of new CM-2's ???

The shipping is NOT $15 as advertised on MT Guns. You willed be billed $20 for shipping, they don't seem to care that they are false advertising to the customer.

Wench .... have you taken the time to call Mac and note that the info on his site may be incorrect?

I have had numerous dealings with MT Guns and they have all been satisfactory for me and my program. I recommend him to anyone.

For my 13 year old daughter (entry level shooter), I went the Mac Tilton route, as Ptarmigan suggested. I considered the CM-2 youth rifle, but went with a used Anschutz 64 Match and had him mod the stock with a fully-adjustable buttplate. My logic was: it fits her now, has room to grow, and accepts standard accessories. The full size CM-2 or Anschutz 54 action rifles were just too heavy. I'm not an experienced match shooter, so don't know if this was a good approach. However, she loves the rifle.

Should be a great rifle for her for some time. Congrats to you and to her for having a Dad willing to get her into a great sport!

My daughter & my wife both use the Anschutz match 64 for our local winter indoor league. I think your daughter is very luckly. Congrats.

Schuetzen

The 82 is very heavy. If it's similiar to the H&R 12 it will have another problem, due to the grip and cheekpiece, I find the H&R 12 really frustrating when shooting prone. I can't at all get my NPA right, and I usually tilt the rifle when shooting so I can use the sights better, with this gun that's pretty difficult. Also, I doubt the stock will fit.

I think the CM-2 is even heavier, almost 12 pounds. I'm almost a foot taller and 10 or 11 pounds is where the weight starts to bug me.