TargetTalk

The last time there was palaver re: Walther SSP was around the time people by the droves were founding out how piss poor the MG2 was and all of the problems---I don't want a re-hash about that gun. I had one of the first and Don Nygord bought it back from me---nuff said. In all the time since then I have heard less and less re: SSP. So what's the word about the SSP in 2009---I like it's looks as I did the MG2---but what's the current "word" out there in regards the SSP? "Doc"

I guess you mean MG2 since the MG1 is a AP and therefore not to compare with the SSP..

Regarding the SSP, one of the main complaints has been a poor trigger. Six months ago, or something like that, Walther came with a new trigger unit and it is A LOT better than the old one. So I gues that issue is gone. If you buy one, be sure it is not an old one that has been in stock for a while, be sure it has the new trigger unit installed. I think it is a nice pistol, but you don't see a lot af them on the ranges. Maybe it is the high price, but then again the AW93 is just as expensive......

You are right I have a mental block towards the MG2. It was such a beautiful gun but an engineering horror from madman Morini. That trigger problem seemed to have been since the SSP was brought on the market. It is expensive but, not worth the price as was the MG2, wonderful designs both, but engineering disasters. My first experience with the SSP , which was in the possession of a friend who loved the gun but he called the trigger equal to the Serpentine Matchlock hand gonne of the Medieval period. The adjustments on the stock and feel were superb as the MG2, and the mechanics of the SSP did not cause the horrendous malfunctions equal to Morini's "Devil Gun." OK thanks for your input, I can tell the underwhelming response to my post indicates a sort What, Who, When to the question re: SSP. "Doc"

I can tell the underwhelming response to my post indicates a sort What, Who, When to the question re: SSP. "Doc

Not from me at least Doc. I have just purchased a new SSP, and find it to be a marvelously engineered and constructed pistol. The trigger problem seems to be related to what is lost in the translation from German to English. Even the latest trigger adjustment update is incorrect and shows various screws as having different functions to their actual use.
I spent the time to understand the trigger function properly, and now have a fabulous trigger that is as good as I have owned. One of the pitfalls is that there are two sear adjustment screws...one coarse, and an inner fine adjustment screw, but whoever checked the german-english either had no understanding of guns or learnt the language in siberia...or both.
It has taken pistol manufacturing standards to a new level, and has some of the most innovative features found on any pistol.
Until a more accurate and understandable set of trigger instructions are released by Walther, then this is not the pistol for the inexperience, but in the right hands it the bees knees without doubt. I had a n MG2 RF, and after factory involvement to correct the ejection problem, was the most innovative and satisfying pistol I have owned [ and there have been a lot ] ...but this new SSP may even better the Matchguns.
I have found a lot of pistol shooters reluctant to change from what they have become comfortable with, but the SSP adjusted correctly, is a step forward for me.

Sir,

Thanks for your input on this. I would like to find out though, if there are other reviews of this gun, and if somebody else made some side-by-side comparison of all the 25 meter pistols. Please direct me to any link that you may know of.

Thanks

Ron

I've shot the SSP's of my club colleagues, and IMHO they see no land against the MG2. Even a standard version MG2 V1 (snr 103x, fully original) has a much better recoil recovery and a MUCH better trigger than the SSP, not to speak of a 2009 MG2 with RF kit, which makes the SSP look like a hyperactive rabbit. And contrary to Walther, Matchguns is actually interested in supporting their customers, even if they are not in the 590-point category. So, I don't think it's fair at all to compare them :-)

Hello Tycho...It wasn't my intention to compare the MG2 with the SSP, simply stating that I was pleasantly surprised by the innovative design and quality of manufacture. The switch to the SSP has cost me no points at all, and I feel that there is more to come.
I agree that Matchguns customer care is second to none, and Stefano Calzetti is extremely obliging and professional in solving customers problems, and I know that the few problems I had with my MG2RF were dealt with very swiftly.
However, I believe that to say the MG2 RF makes the SSP look like a hyperactive rabbit may be using artistic license to stretch the truth a little......however colourful it may sound.
I have an MG2 electronic on order, so a side by side comparison is in the pipeline in the near future. In the meantime, I'm surprised at the SSP's manners...but in my heart I'm a Matchgun shooter.

Well, all the SSP's I've shot so far show a pretty disillusioning recoil recovery, artistic license yes or no. That thing jumps, and that is a fact. May be that the pistol can be set up better, all of them are probably right out the box, but if those are factory standards... I'm pretty sure, and I've always said that, that the SSP should have great potential, as it includes a lot of good ideas of the last 20 years into one pistol. Despite this, I'd be disappointed if I had bought one - rear sights falling off, dismal trigger and a nearly non-reconstructable grip adjusting system do not show great insight into the practical aspects of shooting. And, there is the service quality of Walther...

I don't think there's a 'perfect' gun out there; everything has its own 'characteristics. But it boils down to this - the SSP won silver and bronze in Beijing for the Ladies' sport pistol, so it can hardly be that bad?!? I'm in the process of saving up for one and look forward to getting it.

bigred wrote:But it boils down to this - the SSP won silver and bronze in Beijing for the Ladies' sport pistol, so it can hardly be that bad?!?

I'm not passing any comment on the SSP, I haven't shot one. Remember though that 25m Pistol (Ladies' Sport) is all single shots. As such the gun's recoil characteristics are not as important as they would be in the Rapid Fire Pistol or Standard Pistol matches.

Maybe its the way I have it setup, but the recoil isn't all that different from my MG2RF that a fellow member has bought from me. In fact, using RWS C25, it doesn't move that much at all. I agree that the RF version of the MG2 has the best recoil recovery I have used, but the SSP is no slouch either. Now to the trigger. Another member has an SSP that is 18 months old, and he hates the trigger...in fact so did I, but after stripping the gun and figuring out how it works, and adjusting it correctly my triggger is excellent...and I mean excellent. The instructions have mechanical, terminology, and factual errors making the trigger virtually impossible to setup correctly. The rear sights are a quick disconnect item, and can only fall off if the owner doesn't show enough common sense to tighten the screw correctly, but are great when changing from slow fire to duelling...just drop the spare sight into place and tighten the screw...no more remembering how many clicks to point of aim or vice versa. The ball joint adjustment for all grip angle changes initially looked dumb, but after using it correctly, I think its brilliant...just loosen the allen screw a tad, and move to the required angle...in any direction, and pinch up...voila...no multi screw affair that looks downright archaic by comparison. In fact I have just finished adjusting my LP10...what a tedious affair...I wish it had the same ball joint to be honest.
But the best is for last...strip it down and look at what seems to be a joint venture between Omega and Walther...simply superb attention to detail, that I have never seen on a pistol before, and engineering precision and finish to be proud of, with both coarse and fine sear adjustment screws, that is more useful than it initially seems.
Lastly, watch the ladies sport pistol on ISSF tv, and tell me if you think the recoil looks different to the AW93's or the Pardinis.....

With regards to comparison of recoils, this might help:

http://karlslundesport.dk/default.asp?A ... u&Item=114

I probably am not too keen an observer, but I hardly saw any difference. Your shared thought/inputs will be greatly appreciated.

Ron

IMO, those movies are more about the slide rebounding than about the effective recoil - which can't be measured objectively, anyway, as it obviously depends on the grip and the shooter...

This is what I see at the range when using both pistols....virtually no difference, except that the SSP recoil seems more subdued, or not as sharp as the MG2......personal feeling only. As Tycho has mentioned, grip and shooter play a role in these things, and at the end of the day, both are very, very good pistols capable of out shooting most of us.
After a session at the range I had a shot from a Hammerli 208, which coincidently was the first pistol I ever purchased back in 1975. It is still an admirable shooter, but then move to an MG2 or SSP and see what nearly forty years of technological improvement have done to the handling, adjustability, and trigger characteristics of pistols.

deadeyedick wrote:After a session at the range I had a shot from a Hammerli 280, which coincidently was the first pistol I ever purchased back in 1975.

I don't want to be picky but surely that was at least 10 years before the 280 was launched.

Thank you David..I actually meant to say 208, not 280.

I've said before it's a great piece of equipment but here are my gripes with it:
The trigger as it comes from the factory does need adjustment to get the best out of it but this would be the same as any new gun needing adjustment in trigger or grip. I think the trigger is slighly better in my Hammerli 280 in terms of crispness though.
The slide release buttons are too big and located in the wrong place. It is difficult to let your slide slam home when the buttons foul your thumb and finger during its travel forwards. I've removed the factory buttons and machined smaller ones that don't protrude.
I don't like pushing down on top of the first round when clipping the magazine into place. The first round tends to stay pointed down which goes against Walthers diagrams they publish to counter just such an event.

Hi JB. I make sure the bulletts are loaded into the magazine, then lower it into place and press the eject button a couple of times to further lower it , then using one finger, press down onto the rear of the mag...works every time. I actually like the slide release buttons, as they are large enough to grip with confidence, whereas my MG2 are very slim and I ocassionally slip, letting the slide move forward. I open the slide using the rearmost indentations, and are therefore able to press the hold open button in one movement, and then releasing the slide, allowing it to close by itself I use the two front depressions, taking the buttons out of the equation.
The crispness of the release can be brought down to an almost "breaking glass" feeling if you use the inner and outer adjustments of screw "e".
Walther refer to them as earlier and later trigger slack for the outer slotted screw, and higher and lower trigger slack power for the inner allen screw. A better way to look at it is to consider the slotted screw as a coarse starting point for sear release, which requires the most minute of movements to go from drag to instant . The real gem is the inner allen screw, which allows a much more generous range of movement to fine tune the crispness level of release. Mine is currently adjusted to perfection, totalling a little over 750 gms first stage, and 250+ on the second, with a crispness that surprises every time.
If you are aware of these things JB, then disregard..if not, then good luck.

I had my SSP for just 10 days before it went back to dealer but I do recommend a RINK grip on this gun, as I had.

2 screws secure the sideway movement and you will have the same angle all the time, furtermore the grip can be removed even if the magazine will not release. Happend to me when the release button was not working due to loose joints. :-(

Kent

I've shot 6 times with my SSP, I had to buy it, because I've had malfunctions with my hämmerli 280 for 1/2 year. I've tried a lot of wapons, bus this was the only one who could fit in my tiny hand en the weight is perfect! I love my pistol in the duel part of sportpistol! And also with MRF it is great. I think the trigger is nog that good as my hämmerli trigger, but next week I'm shooting the dutch championchips and I don't want to play with the trigger before the competition. My trainer heard some really bad reviews about the trigger, but I'm sure that was an old type of the SSP. In about two week I want to try to customise the trigger. It's also a little bit to heavy and I have to release it 100% between shots to prefent malfuntions. If I don't release it 100% it gives some kind of crispy feeling and when that happens it doesn't shoot! I think this weapen will be better than my hämmerli 280, when I get used to the trigger. The balanse and grip are great! And it doesn't jump to much after each shot, so for the rapid fire part it is great! I hope this will help you a little bit.

Greetz Chantal