TargetTalk

From a functional/accuracy, well.... overall perspective... is it correct that the 70 is the preferred gun?

I've never owned a 1911, so I won't know the difference.

Guess my question is... Is $1,000 better spent on a new series 80, or a used 70 (Gold Cup is what I'm looking at). And yes, I realize that I could look for a used Bullseye 1911, for the most bang-for-the buck. I've just always loved the Gold Cups.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Generally The 70 Series is preferred. The 70 Series does not have the firing pin block like the 80 Series. The firing pin block is connected to the trigger, and it makes it tougher to get a clean break with the added friction. I'm pretty sure that the other difference is the collet bushing on the 80 Series compared to the solid bushing on the 70 Series. I sold a 80 Series Gold Cup because it was a real clunker. The slide fit was super sloppy, and it was about as accurate as a beat up GI gun. At least in my 80 Series GC the trigger had a lot of drag from the firing pin block. I still have a pre 70 series Gold Cup and it is fairly accurate, the trigger is kinda mushy, but it is fit pretty well. I would steer away from a model that has the firing pin block. I would also suggest a Springfield target model as a good starting platform. At least where I live in PA, target models turn up at the larger stores on a regular basis. I think the feel/function is more important than the brand.
Ter

MSC wrote:From a functional/accuracy, well.... overall perspective... is it correct that the 70 is the preferred gun?

I've never owned a 1911, so I won't know the difference.

Guess my question is... Is $1,000 better spent on a new series 80, or a used 70 (Gold Cup is what I'm looking at). And yes, I realize that I could look for a used Bullseye 1911, for the most bang-for-the buck. I've just always loved the Gold Cups.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Some smiths charge more for a Series 80 trigger job; other than that there is no difference. Either may need an "accuracy job" to be competitive.

From my experience, neither is accurate enough out-of-the box for formal outdoor bullseye pistol matches. You would be better off financially, by getting a plain jane Colt series 70 Government Model or Springfield Armory Milspec and send it off to a competent bullseye pistolsmith for accurizing. That being said, if you have your heart set on a Gold Cup, get the series 70 for the reasons listed above about the extra parts on the series 80 trigger. If you are planning to shoot CMP EIC matches, be advised that many series 80 Gold Cups do not meet the rules for a service pistol out-of-the-box. They could be used for NRA matches where a wadcutter gun is allowed. For a match pistol, most bullseye smiths recommend a blued steel gun over one made of stainless steel.

I have a friend who had a Series 80 that worked fine with the Series 80 bits removed and wouldn't work at all with the interlocks installed. After several hours and much pain and suffering we got it sorted out but it is a bunch of complication that provides no benefit in a target environment. I suggest avoiding it whenever possible. It's just one more group of parts that can fail/misbehave and ruin your day.

Something to be aware of is a series 80 1911 with the series 80 parts removed is not legal for NRA bullseye. NRA rules state that all safety features must work. There was recently a thread about this on the bullseye-l forum. This even included a .22 conversion, such as a Marvel, on a series 80. Even if the series 80 parts were left in the frame they don't block the firing pin of the conversion. I know the chances of discovery would be slim but removing safety parts is a no-no.

Keeping the series 80 safeties functional was in fact the reason for the several hours of pain and suffering. The gun just started to fail to stike the primer on occasion. The series 80 bits were removed as a diagnostic only. With the parts in it was about 50/50 if it would fire. With them out it was 100% fine. As it turned out one of the lifting pawls was worn just enough and dragging. Replacing it fixed the problem. The point about the Marvel is a valid one. Hopefuly some day they will fix that rule but until then it appears that a conversion on an 80 frame is a violation as silly as it seems.

MSC wrote:
Guess my question is... Is $1,000 better spent on a new series 80, or a used 70 (Gold Cup is what I'm looking at). And yes, I realize that I could look for a used Bullseye 1911, for the most bang-for-the buck. I've just always loved the Gold Cups.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Most 1911's, even Gold Cups, are not accurate enough out of the box to get you far in bullseye where the level of accuracy required is higher than in other sports using that gun. One good option is to get a base gun like the Springfield MilSpec and have one of the bullseye pistol smiths turn it into a true match gun for you. The total package might cost a little more than the $1000 figure you used but you could probably have just part of the work done at first and still have a much improved gun at a somewhat lower price.

Another option is to try to find a used one for sale by someone here or on the Bullseye-L list where there are far more bullseye shooters than any other single place I know about. You can sign up at www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/ and ask if anyone wants to part with one. They are listed for sale there sometimes and especially now in the off season someone might be willing to sell one at a reasonable price. Worth a try.

Clark

As always, thanks for all the useful feedback : )

jkn wrote:

The gun just started to fail to stike the primer on occasion. The series 80 bits were removed as a diagnostic only. With the parts in it was about 50/50 if it would fire. With them out it was 100% fine. As it turned out one of the lifting pawls was worn just enough and dragging. Replacing it fixed the problem.

I've seen this same problem 3 different times. Each time it was caused by the overtravel screw in the trigger being set too deep. Backing the screw out 1/2 turn cured the problem. The screw being set too deep did not allow the trigger stirrup to travel far enough to lift the firing pin block.