TargetTalk

This is a follow-up post to the other thread that I made in the bullseye section.

Pardini SP .22 LR - Recommendations and Experiances Wanted

I'm looking at the options available for mounting Red Dot scopes and I'm particullarly interested in the UltraDot Match 30mm scope since it seems to be recommended and quite popular. I'm interested in this specific model since it has the small 2 MOA dot whereas the other UltraDot scopes start at the 4 MOA dot size and move up from there.

I have the Milett RedDot SP-1 scope with a 5 MOA on my S&W 686 6" .38spl/.357mag and when I shoot at my in-door range at 50-feet I feel that the large 5 MOA dot obscures too much of the 10 & X rings so I cannot aim a precise shot and that is why I'm more interested in the smaller 2 MOA dot and since this dot size only comes on the 30mm size scope my availability of mounting rings is thus limited.

The most obvious option is to purchase the Picatinny/Weaver rail for the Pardini SP and mount any 30mm rings that I want on it, like the ones that should come with the scope.

The other option is to buy specific rings for the small .22 caliber rails on the Pardini SP such as the ones shown below from Larry's Guns or possibily the Burris 1" (Deluxe Steel) Rings .22 also shown below but then I'd have to change my red dot scope to a 1-inch (25mm) model since these rings only come in the 1-inch (25mm) size and these smaller scopes don't have the 2 MOA dot as an option.

I've seen pictures of various Pardini SP pistols here with Red Dot sights and different people use different setups rings only or rail & rings.


What to do?
What is the best choice?
Are there other 1-inch (25mm) red dot scopes that have 2 MOA size dots available?


Pardini SP - .22 LR - $1,846 USD (~$1,400-1,500 USD Used)



Pardini SP Magazine .22 LR - $58 USD

Rings

(Unsure if the Burris rings fit the Pardini rail)

Burris 1" Deluxe Steel Rings .22



Burris 1" Rings .22



Larry's Guns - Scope rings, Pardini - $22.78 USD



Pardini SP Scope Mount - $139 USD



Scopes

UltraDot Match 30 mm Red Dot Sight (2, 4, 6, 8 MOA) - $189 USD



Aimpoint Micro R-1 (4 MOA) - ~$450 USD

I would use the lightest weight rings and dot.

On my S&W 41 I use a Millet 1" and aluminum ring similar to the ones on Larry's sight. It has been mounted for about 7000 rounds with no problems.

Before the 1" I had a 30mm Millet mounted for about 50,000 rounds and never had a problem. I also have a Millet 30mm on my .45 that has been fired many 1000s of rounds and one on a 44 Magnum.

The Millets hold zero and work fine for me. Those Aluminum 2 peice rings seem to be fine too, from .22 to 44 Mag.

Dogchaser wrote:On my S&W 41 I use a Millet 1" and aluminum ring similar to the ones on Larry's sight. It has been mounted for about 7000 rounds with no problems.

The Millets hold zero and work fine for me. Those Aluminum 2 peice rings seem to be fine too, from .22 to 44 Mag.

I have the Millet two-piece top-screw rings on my sight and they are alright. The hold the weaver rail on my revolver well enough and I've not had a problem with movement or them.

I'm just curious as to what my options are on mounting that 2 MOA 30mm scope on the small .22 rail.

Hi Jak,
I have a standard 1" Ultradot on my Pardini with modified Millet vertically split aluminum rings (pretty much identical to Larry's rings). I'm a big fan of the light weight of the Pardini, and the aluminum rings on the built in grove with a 1" scope provide about the lowest weight solution (for a conventional dot). 43 oz, same as my model 41 with iron sights.

I'm not a big fan of the fancier Ultradots, but you can pick your choice. I've got mine as far back as possible, so the balance of my gun isn't much different than without the dot.

I used to shoot a 30 mm dot for .22, but don't really need it. I've been using the 1" standard Ultradot for years with no problems.

Just my experience,
Steve.

I can't help with the Ultradot, but my wife and I both shoot SP's with a 3 MOA Docter sight. This is a configuration that Don Nygord used to sell. They are very light and don't affect the balance of the pistol at all. Unfortunately, the prices on the sights have gone through the roof in the last year or two.

If you can find one at a decent price, a mount that fits the Pardini can be bought from: http://opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=383. You want the 19mm prism mount.

There are several Docter sight clones around, but I don't think the Docter mounts are interchangeable with any of them.

Jak,

You can't use .22 rings (3/8" or 11mm) on the Pardini because the barrel width is 20mm between those thin rails. You have to use vertical split weaver rings for the rails. Since you already have a Millett SP-1 red dot, you can mount that on the Pardini using the rings that came with it. I did that but I'm going to replace the Millett with an UltraDot because the Millett is unreliable for me -- the red dot keeps turning off and I have to fiddle with brightness knob to get it to come back on. A PITA.

Regards,

Doug Carlton

red930turbo wrote:Jak,

You can't use .22 rings (3/8" or 11mm) on the Pardini because the barrel width is 20mm between those thin rails. You have to use vertical split weaver rings for the rails. Since you already have a Millett SP-1 red dot, you can mount that on the Pardini using the rings that came with it. I did that but I'm going to replace the Millett with an UltraDot because the Millett is unreliable for me -- the red dot keeps turning off and I have to fiddle with brightness knob to get it to come back on. A PITA.

Regards,

Doug Carlton

Doug,
Is your Millett an old one from Japan, or the new one (from China I think)? I had an old Japanese one I really liked, but it also started to blink in and out. Someone told me I could tighten up the retaining ring under the battery to do something about this, but I already sent it to Millett for repair. They replaced it with the new model, which although it works, is quite a bit inferior to the original (tubes unscrewing from the body, loose debris in the tube, etc). But it does work.

Steve.

Gwhite wrote:I can't help with the Ultradot, but my wife and I both shoot SP's with a 3 MOA Docter sight. This is a configuration that Don Nygord used to sell. They are very light and don't affect the balance of the pistol at all. Unfortunately, the prices on the sights have gone through the roof in the last year or two.

If you can find one at a decent price, a mount that fits the Pardini can be bought from: http://opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=383. You want the 19mm prism mount.

There are several Docter sight clones around, but I don't think the Docter mounts are interchangeable with any of them.

I use the Burris Fastfire version of this sight. Weighs only 2 oz.

Doug



http://www.burrisoptics.com/fastfire.html

I used the light rings furnished by Don Nygord which resemble the photo of the ring's from Larry's Guns. I also used the 30mm Ultradot at the 8 minute setting. At that setting when the dot is surrounded by black you have a 10.

TonyT wrote:I used the light rings furnished by Don Nygord which resemble the photo of the ring's from Larry's Guns. I also used the 30mm Ultradot at the 8 minute setting. At that setting when the dot is surrounded by black you have a 10.

I agree with your choice of dot size. I think people are kidding themselves when they say that a small dot allows more precise aim. Not unless they have an arm like a Ransom Rest :-).

marlin1881 wrote:I use the Burris Fastfire version of this sight. Weighs only 2 oz.

Any idea if the mount is the same design as the Docter? Docter uses the same 4 pins & two screws arrangement, but I'd be surprised if the holes were all in the same place.

The other problem (which is common) is that Burris lists their mounts by what firearms they fit. The Pardini uses a 19mm dovetail, which may be common on other European firearms, but I have no idea if any of the guns they list use that arrangement.

Gwhite wrote:

marlin1881 wrote:I use the Burris Fastfire version of this sight. Weighs only 2 oz.

Any idea if the mount is the same design as the Docter? Docter uses the same 4 pins & two screws arrangement, but I'd be surprised if the holes were all in the same place.

The other problem (which is common) is that Burris lists their mounts by what firearms they fit. The Pardini uses a 19mm dovetail, which may be common on other European firearms, but I have no idea if any of the guns they list use that arrangement.

I've got the Burris on my BE Springfield 1911. I talked to Burris about this mount issue, as it is difficult to determine which you really need. I ended up getting the standard 1911, as the base is just a "wedge" that fits in the slide dovetail, the mount sits on top of that, and the screws go down through the FF body, through the mount, and screw in into the base. (Hope that makes sense...). In fact, on my 1911, the base fits loosely in the dovetail, until snugged up by the 2 screws.

Marlin

red930turbo wrote: You can't use .22 rings (3/8" or 11mm) on the Pardini because the barrel width is 20mm between those thin rails.

I did that but I'm going to replace the Millett with an UltraDot because the Millett is unreliable for me -- the red dot keeps turning off and I have to fiddle with brightness knob to get it to come back on. A PITA.

Yes, I read in this thread that the 19mm rail is non-standard for the US and I spoke to Larry at Larry's Guns about mounting the UltraDot Match 30mm on the gun and he recommended just getting the rail installed onto the barrel of the pistol to get a standard Picatinny/Weaver rail and mount the scope on top of that. I've heard some people mention that this might throw off the "balance" of the gun but since I'm already mounting a long-tube red dot sight on the gun I'm altering the balance so I'm thinking that I might as well just make it easy on myself and follow the recommended and easy way.

I've look at the Burris FastFire red dot sight and it does remind me of the Docter sight that I've always wanted on install on my 1911 .45 ACP pistol. I might end up doing just that since the cost of the Burris is only $200 and it includes the auto-brightness and double-glass design. The price is half the cost of the Docter sight that was difficult to find in stock in the US market two or three years ago when I got my 1911 and no alternative sights existed in that compact design at the time. (Now it seems that every company has copied the Docter design.)

FYI, I've already put down the deposit on a 1-year used Pardini SP with the rail installed on it and the UltraDot Match 30mm. I ended up purchasing another one of these sights to replace my Millet SP-1 that has have had some problems and also other folks at my range had problems with their new sights in the past few years.

JakFrost wrote:I've look at the Burris FastFire red dot sight and it does remind me of the Docter sight that I've always wanted on install on my 1911 .45 ACP pistol. I might end up doing just that since the cost of the Burris is only $200 and it includes the auto-brightness and double-glass design. The price is half the cost of the Docter sight that was difficult to find in stock in the US market two or three years ago when I got my 1911 and no alternative sights existed in that compact design at the time. (Now it seems that every company has copied the Docter design.)

One problem with the Docter and Burris FastFire is the need to dismount the sight when replacing the battery. Bad during a match ;-( Also the elevation and windage adjustments do not have clicks - you need to use the little calibration wheel and this is a very awkward procedure, especially if you decide to move your sight a few clicks during a match. I also dislike the auto brightness control - the dot was always too bright or too dim for me.
Great sights for Action Pistol shooting, but not suited for BE, IMHO.

There are clones of the Docter sight that address some of these issues. There is at least one out there that allows replacing the battery without dismantling anything and tweaking the brightness. I don't recall the specific brand at the moment, but I think it was only available with an integral Weaver mount, which is why I didn't pay much attention.

The battery in mine last about 3 years of fairly regular use. As long as you are shooting at a fixed distance (I shoot mine in a 50' indoor league), the adjustment design is a minor annoyance. At least on mine, the locating pins aren't tight enough to guarantee perfect alignment when you change out the battery, so you do have to tweak the sight after a battery swap, but not by much.

I have an ultradot lt on mine. I think ultradot has discontinued this model. As I've herd, some people have had problems. I like the size, pull out tray for the battery, and the cover that puts it to sleep. The only problem is the dot size can be comet like, w shaped etc. The base needs to be filed so the edges catch the fine lips on the top edges.
p.s. the shootersbox.com has them

I have found the UltraDot MatchDot a better choice than the 1" that Don Nygord installed on my old SP22. You will perceive less "looking down a tube". The scope only adds little weight, so one should consider adding the counterweights in the swamped muzzle. They are neither cheap nor hard to install. The spring action they offer adds a reverse inertial force that helps the pistol recover from the recoil pulse. As many know, the bolt flies back nearly as fast as does the bullet! This short cycle time is a beneficial trait of thisOlympic Class Racegun

I have discovered having the scope mounted more forward actually makes the smaller dot slightly smaller on target. The aluminum frame of this delightfully crafted pistol puts less weight in the palm; correspondingly, the muzzle "droops". So, in synch with trigger control and sight picture the combo will print dime sized group at 25 yards.

See you @ the Range! God bless TargetTalk!