TargetTalk

I have posted a summary of the major 2009 changes as they affect pistol at http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/nrc_pa/issf.htm

Spencer

I was startled - and a bit taken aback - about the new (and somewhat hidden) no. "6.4.2.1 Clothing Regulations".

Can only have been prudish Americans who invented it.

*sigh*

As to the rest and the many comments: excellent work by Spencer, many thanks!

Alexander

really only the camo bit that has changed.

the old 8.4.7.1 It is the responsibility of the competitor to appear on the ranges dressed in a manner appropriate to a public event. v the 2009 6.4.2.1 It is the responsibility of the competitor to appear on the ranges dressed in a manner appropriate to a public event. This must be controlled by the Jury. Clothing made of camouflage material is prohibited.

Spencer

Ah - thanks for setting me straight!

I withdraw my speculation, to recycle it at a more appropriate occasion ;-).

Alexander

Alexander wrote:Ah - thanks for setting me straight!

I withdraw my speculation, to recycle it at a more appropriate occasion ;-).

Alexander

It is always appropriate to engage one's mind before opening ones mouth :-)

Fred Mannis wrote:

Alexander wrote:Ah - thanks for setting me straight!
I withdraw my speculation, to recycle it at a more appropriate occasion ;-).

It is always appropriate to engage one's mind before opening ones mouth :-)

Hey, at least I engaged it afterwards - that's already a virtuous step. ;-)

Alexander

Thanks for the posting Spencer.

Jack

higginsdj wrote:I am new to this and don't pretend to know all the rules but 6.11.4.1 seems a little odd to me. Whats the point of stating which value the 2 points is deducted from. Its still going to cost you 2 points if it is taken from the lowest or highest value - ie why not just record it as a deduction rather than affecting individual shot scores!

It makes a big difference if you get to a tie break count-back under rule 6.14.2.2

6.11.4.1 is a general deduction, i.e. one not applying to to a specific match series. To take it off any but the first series could penalize the shooter twice for something that happened before the start of the official shooting time.

Yeah - I realised when I read further - but here is an issue. By deducting 2 points form an actual shot score the shooter is bascially knobbled twice. First for the deduction and then on the countback (ie if my lowest score was an 8 and is now a 6 then I get tagged ont he countback as well if it goes down to the 8's)

In AP what score/shot isn't the 'first series' other than the final?

higginsdj wrote:Yeah - I realised when I read further - but here is an issue. By deducting 2 points form an actual shot score the shooter is bascially knobbled twice. First for the deduction and then on the countback (ie if my lowest score was an 8 and is now a 6 then I get tagged ont he countback as well if it goes down to the 8's)

In AP what score/shot isn't the 'first series' other than the final?

part 1 - Short solution - don't do it! Even simpler, don't do it a second time (when the penalty applies)!!
part 2 - Although competition shots are a continuum, they are scored as 6 (or 4) series of 10 shots: 6.11.1.1.1.2

Spencer

Spencer wrote:really only the camo bit that has changed.

Clothing made of camouflage material is prohibited.[/i]

Spencer

They would have been smarter to say that military or paramilitary clothing is prohibited.

So, a girl in pink camo pants is not allowed, but I can turn up in full black SWAT gear OK?

j-team wrote:

Spencer wrote:really only the camo bit that has changed.

Clothing made of camouflage material is prohibited.[/i]

Spencer

They would have been smarter to say that military or paramilitary clothing is prohibited.

So, a girl in pink camo pants is not allowed, but I can turn up in full black SWAT gear OK?

Don't worry, I'll be in "Hunter Orange" from head to toe.

The catch is in the requirement for the Jury to be involved in compliance monitoring. If, in their opinion, the clothing contravenes the rules then off it comes!

j-team wrote: They would have been smarter to say that military or paramilitary clothing is prohibited.

So, a girl in pink camo pants is not allowed, but I can turn up in full black SWAT gear OK?

What is 'paramilitary' ? That is open to interpretation and varies across the world. That could include black 'swat' gear, green shirt and trousers, green T-shirt etc.

Camo gear is more easily defined.

Rob.

I've always thought that the no-camo rules which certain clubs and some national shooting federations have had for years is as much to do with safety (i.e. participants should not be making themselves more difficult to see) as it has with disassociating ISSF shooting from paramilitary organisations.
I can recall a situation at our own club where a full camo-wearing patcher was still patching the last of the holes of the previous series when the R.O called out "For the next series.....!". He didn't quite get to calling "load!" before the presence of the patcher was brought to his attention. Yes the R.O. should have been attentive, but it was a dull cloudy day and the patcher was actually quite difficult to see.

John H wrote:I've always thought that the no-camo rules which certain clubs and some national shooting federations have had for years is as much to do with safety (i.e. participants should not be making themselves more difficult to see) as it has with disassociating ISSF shooting from paramilitary organisations.

Perhaps but I must admit I don't like the camo clad attire some people wear as it just gives the wrong impression. To me it gives out the message that you're playing at soldiers (unless of course you're in the armed forces - which is fine). We are taking part in an olympic sport and hence clothing should be appropriate for that. Shooting is in the public eye for the wrong reason 99% of the time and doing the camo thing just adds further options for negative press and stereotyping.

Rob.

I might translate the new rules into portuguese, depends on agreement with national organization.

Is there a version in editable format? Working on a 7mb pdf is next to impossible. Tried to convert, became a word file of 150mb. And the free programs I found are bad, tables become text boxes.

Thanks for any help.

jacques b gros wrote:I might translate the new rules into portuguese, depends on agreement with national organization.

Is there a version in editable format? Working on a 7mb pdf is next to impossible. Tried to convert, became a word file of 150mb. And the free programs I found are bad, tables become text boxes.

Thanks for any help.

NitroPDF Professional should do what you want. See their website www.nitropdf.com

Thank you, Fred, but the tables (and the thing is full of them) came out all mixed. Plain text came out ok, but for that I simply save a copy in txt format and toil away. Will have to rebuild the indexes, though.

Will ask, via Brazilian natl organization, for a copy in another format from ISSF. Doubt they will give, seems they are not there to help. They should at least offer alternatives to the natl orgs, for translation purposes.

Thanks.

6.14.2.1 the highest number of inner tens;

6.14.2.2 the highest score of the last ten shot series working backward by 10 shot series in full ring scoring (not inner tens or decimals) until the tie is broken;

Slow fire has been more important. Lucky me :-)

Kent