TargetTalk

Hi Shooters, does anyone size pellets? Is there any icrease in accuracy if you do size them?

I also use a Morini 162 EI Short. What pellet do you use?


Thanks, John

John,

I size my pellets using a Nygord sizer. It significantly tightens groups for me. The only way you'll determine if it's worth your time is to test your pistol and pellets sized and unsized.

John

I do have a Nygord sizer.

John

Interesting topic. I once had a Nygord sizer that I sold when Don himself told me it didn't work. He said he made them because people bought them.

That said, my limited testing shrank some of my groups with my FWB 65.

The most interesting thing was that it allowed me to seperate by "feel" some pellets that were fatter than others and use two groups of the same pellet, thereby eliminating flyers in an air rifle.

Some air guns will size and true pellets on loading (e.g. Pardini, Walther CPs).

Don't know what a Nygord sizer was like but I tried sizing the pellets a few years ago. It made no difference.

In fact, as the pellets were pushed through the sizer small slivers of lead were sliced off the sides of the pellets which had a wider flange. Not sure whether they were wider because they were squashed in packaging or because they were larger.

Either way I decided that there was more chance of pellets being a uniform weight before being sized and that by shaving off small bits of lead I was varying the pellet weights and this was likely to have greater effect on my shooting. I think my Morini virtually sizes the pellets because the way in which the rod forces them into the barrel.

Hi. Interesting indeed as I also have given this a bit of thought as it was an argument among ourselves. But just my two cents worth... my 14 year old Steyr (probably belonged to the earliest precompressed air pistol of Steyr still makes a "one hole" shot group (maybe a maximum of 6.5mm) for a vised 10 shot test, well within the 10 ring. Any improvement through a pellet resizer would be negligible because the group remains a "constant" and we simple are the "variables". I think the resulting tighter group is a product of confidence after convincing one's self that the resizer works.

Regards,

Ron

It may or may not tighten groups, but it is one way to get rid of any squashed pellets. if you sized them into a shaker it would probably be of bennefit

if you are using good quality match pellets like H&N, RWS or Vogel, then a pellet sizer is not only a waste of time, but in most cases it will worsen your group. Like the earlier poster said, Mr. Nygord sold some stuff cause people wanted to buy it not because it was useful or necessary

And since we are on the air pistol forum and not the air rifle forum, I will say it again. PELLET TESTING FOR AIR PISTOLS IS A WASTE OF TIME. Modern air pistols and pellets are so good, and the 10 ring is so big, that pellet testing even for the world’s best shooters is really unnecessary. The ISSF dimensions for the 10 ring is a whopping 11.5 mm in diameter. Add the potential of the pellet diameter on either side of that 11.5, and you have a group capable of shooting nothing but 10s that is 20.5 mm in diameter. Okay, I hear you ask, if the bullseye is a lot bigger, isn’t the accuracy a lot worse for that shorter barrel necessitating a bigger bullseye? Actually, no. In most cases an air pistol is capable of the same 8 mm average group size as a rifle. The discriminating factor requiring that bigger target is the shooter’s arm and hold, not the pellet group size. The group size can be almost 3 times larger and still hold the 10 ring. In my opinion, the only air pistol competitors that need to have their pistols pellet tested, are those members on the US Team traveling to world cups, and then it is mostly for the comfort of mind that you have the best, not that it will make a significant impact on scores.

TECHNIQUE!

I don't usually get involved in "technical" stuff like which gun, which ammo, etc. (obvious exceptions: electronic triggers are a technology which has a direct effect on technique).

Not that I don't fool around with the mechanical stuff, just that I don't think worrying about it really helps us improve our performance. I do indeed spend a lot of time "experimenting" (futzing around with) mechanical stuff. Not to improve my performance- but beacause I find it intersting and enjoyable!

All of that having been said

1. The bore of your gun is the best pellet sizer you could ever buy. Try this experiment: deform a pellet skirt (pinching it into an oval with your finger is a good way). Seat the pellet in your gun fully. Open the action and poke the pellet out carefully with a wooden dowel. What does the pellet look like?

Custom sized, exact fit for your pistol. (sort of)

2. Try the experiment this way: deform oh let's say 33 pellets. Then, carefully select (with a micrometer even) the absolutely mostest perfectest 33 pellets you can find. Then, vice/ransom test (sandbag test better) both groups of pellets (alternating 5-5-5-5-5-5-3 shot groups). Then, compare the average distance from centroid of the Ugly vs. Pretty groups. I've donje this experiment a couple of times (yeah, I know, but it's "Intersting" and "Enjoyable") and have yet to find a *statistically* significant difference between the deformed and perfect pellets.

Your mileage will of course vary . . .

Rover wrote:Interesting topic. I once had a Nygord sizer that I sold when Don himself told me it didn't work. He said he made them because people bought them.

Just to clarify this point: Don Nygord developed his pellet sizer to fill a need that he had. At the time he developed it, pellet alloy oxidized fairly rapidly, and oxidized pellets did not shoot accurately. The sizer was developed to clean the oxidation off the parts of the pellet that contacted the barrel. It was to be used on the pellets just before shooting them.

Within a few years, the pellet makers changed the alloy composition, and now pellets no longer oxidize rapidly - in fact they remain good for a very long time. Don wrote that his sizer was no longer needed, but people wanted it anyway. In fact, if you tried to buy one directly from Don, he would tell you the whole story, and tell you the sizer was not needed. But they kept selling - what was he supposed to do?

I just wanted to make it clear that Don was completely above board in selling this item.

FredB

pilkguns wrote:if you are using good quality match pellets like H&N, RWS or Vogel, then a pellet sizer is not only a waste of time, but in most cases it will worsen your group. Like the earlier poster said, Mr. Nygord sold some stuff cause people wanted to buy it not because it was useful or necessary

And since we are on the air pistol forum and not the air rifle forum, I will say it again. PELLET TESTING FOR AIR PISTOLS IS A WASTE OF TIME. Modern air pistols and pellets are so good, and the 10 ring is so big, that pellet testing even for the world’s best shooters is really unnecessary. The ISSF dimensions for the 10 ring is a whopping 11.5 mm in diameter. Add the potential of the pellet diameter on either side of that 11.5, and you have a group capable of shooting nothing but 10s that is 20.5 mm in diameter. Okay, I hear you ask, if the bullseye is a lot bigger, isn’t the accuracy a lot worse for that shorter barrel necessitating a bigger bullseye? Actually, no. In most cases an air pistol is capable of the same 8 mm average group size as a rifle. The discriminating factor requiring that bigger target is the shooter’s arm and hold, not the pellet group size. The group size can be almost 3 times larger and still hold the 10 ring. In my opinion, the only air pistol competitors that need to have their pistols pellet tested, are those members on the US Team traveling to world cups, and then it is mostly for the comfort of mind that you have the best, not that it will make a significant impact on scores.

I use RWS R10 match pellets and i would have thougth that these pellets would be good size wise but when i tried them in my sizer they were a long way out the pellets are supposed to be 4,50 my sizer is for 4.52pellets and these stick out the top and some drop half way through the sizer which makes them pretty poor in my mind after sizing they do tighten up the groups but i think it depends on your pistol barrell

jak10x1 wrote:Hi Shooters, does anyone size pellets? Is there any icrease in accuracy if you do size them?

I also use a Morini 162 EI Short. What pellet do you use?


Thanks, John

If we are looking for perfection ( which i cant shoot) I think sizing , today, is irevelavent, hower ever batch testing, I do believe is the way to go.

I viseted the steyr dealer in holland and batch tested my poistol, by the end every shot went wthrough the same hole. That said the worst tin, was less than a 6mm group (10 shots)

Julian

Ok this may sound stupid but what is the process for batch testing. Is it putting the gun in a rest/vise and testing a series of pellets to find the most accurate in the gun

Muffo wrote:Ok this may sound stupid but what is the process for batch testing. Is it putting the gun in a rest/vise and testing a series of pellets to find the most accurate in the gun

Basicly yes. Diferent batchs of the same pellet form the same manufacturer will have diferent results. You can also tune some what by adjusting the pover valve on models that have them

picture of a test card at http://www.shootingwiki.org/index.php?t ... cs_testing

Julian

anyone want to buy a Nygord Pellet sizer?

Chris wrote:anyone want to buy a Nygord Pellet sizer?

Hi Chris what do these sizers look like mine does 20 pellets at a time some of the guys have sizers that only do one pellet at a time which would do my head in.
have you have any pics of it ? i may be interested
cheers

Send me your email and I will send you a picture.

John