TargetTalk

I was perusing the USAS pistol rule book last night and noticed that there is a 1500gm (~3.3x Lbs) weight limit on pistols.

Most people I speak with are usually excited about how light their Air Pistols are and talk about the technology that has created such a light pistol.

I bring this up because for the last week or so, I've been training by holding a 3Lb weight for long periods to build my arm muscle for endurance -while on the phone at work, what else are you gonna do?

I also taped a tin of pellets to my pistol (about an extra pound) making my pistol ~3.85 Lbs, then shooting 60+ shots per night, in addition to a bunch of dry-fire. I'm doing this because I still have strength issues which will require a little extra muscle.

Last night I believed that I was starting to see a pay off on all this 'weight lifting' conditioning. Holds were solid for longer and I shot several 90, 92 and 93/100 targets. But I was super excited to have shot a PB 95/100 as well. (Not a single 8 in the group!)

My assumption was that at some point, removing that 1lb tin of pellets from my pistol was going to give me longer and steadier holds. But seeing a max weight limit, I'm wondering if my artificially heavy pistol is also allowing me to shoot higher scores.

Do most people add balance weights to their pistols to max out the ~3.3Lbs pistol weight limit? Or is the lightest pistol possible while still being properly balanced, the goal for most?

Oz

Good job, Oz. You'll be upgrading to a spanking new AP in no time!!

I am not qualified to comment on this issue. A search turned up a couple threads that discussed this 1500g rule that you may want to read (here and here).

Putting aside what weight is the best for a shooter, I think muscle endurance is definitely a big plus for good scores. From the articles I read regarding physical training, 4 to 5 lbs is the weight most often quoted for lift-and-hold exercises. I don't remember where I read this, but it is said that some top shooters don't always put the gun down after they abort a shot. They can hold the gun up after the aborted shot, regroup, execute another shot, and still get a 10. Now that's good stamina.

Edit:
P.S. Oz, where do you tape your tin of pellet? Under the grip? That's the only place I can think of that's out of the way.

Good going, Oz! I train with weights, also, and know that it increased my holding ablility. One caution, though, train both arms. You can get a muscle imbalance that may lead to back and/or neck problems if you only train your shooting arm.

I use a dumbell with weight on one end to train for free pistol. I keep it on the front seat of my car and train while driving. One time I almost wrecked when I had a gallon of milk on the front seat and tried to put the weight down without puncturing the plastic jug. A couple times a week I take it from the car and hold it in my other hand. {The weight not the milk!}
Ben

spacepilot wrote:Good job, Oz. You'll be upgrading to a spanking new AP in no time!!

Oh thanks... I hope so. I'm close to a goal I would need, but unfortunately cash is going to be the real issue

spacepilot wrote: A search turned up a couple threads that discussed this 1500g rule that you may want to read (here and here).

The most obvious... I search for weight, max weight, etc. Didn't even think of 1500gm. Excellent threads and good discussions!

spacepilot wrote: ...I think muscle endurance is definitely a big plus for good scores....

You NAILED it for me. That's it.

spacepilot wrote: P.S. Oz, where do you tape your tin of pellet? Under the grip? That's the only place I can think of that's out of the way.

LOL... you asked, so I will show. It could be over share however. It's a bit embarrassing, but what the hey...

Requirement was an extra pound, forward weight on the pistol to put emphasis on wrist strength. Must also allow for the lever to move unimpeded so I can actually shoot :)


It ain't pretty, but it's been working for a week so far.



Regardless of what it looks like, here are the results from last night. There are 10 shots in there somewhere ;)



Oz

Freepistol wrote:Good going, Oz! I train with weights, also, and know that it increased my holding ablility. One caution, though, train both arms. ...

Thanks! It seems to make sense and seems to be paying off. It's interesting you mention the potential muscle imbalance. I've heard it before so it sounds to me as if I better not ignore it.

Freepistol wrote: I use a dumbell with weight on one end to train for free pistol. I keep it on the front seat of my car and train while driving. One time I almost wrecked...

I am BLOWN away. I figured that I was the only guy holding a dumbell out at arms length while driving! I bought one for the car and one for the office. No close-calls yet in the car, but it has crossed my mind ;)

I can think of no shooter that adds so much extra weight as to increase the gun weight up to the allowable limit. I have however played at training with a 0.5kg weight on my wrist / forearm, whilst shooting. That seemed to help improve stability of hold but I don't know if that translated to a more stable hold when I removed it again (as you obviously couldn't use it in competitions).

Rob.

Oz,
Just returned from the AMU clinic at Ft. Benning. We talked about heavy guns and Darryl's take on it is that adding weight may (or may not) help in the short term, but the real issue is getting a better hold. Work on your hold, work on your strength/endurance and shoot a lighter gun.

BTW some of us use gallon jugs filled with water to work on strength while we drive. Start low and add water as you get stronger. A gallon of water is about 8 lbs, which is plenty.

Kevin Walker
GySgt
USMC Reserve Shooting Team

You need to work on basic strength to start with, also muscle tone and control.

A heavy pistol seems to give an advantage, it appears the wobble is less, and it can mask poor trigger control.
In practise you tire faster.

Its good to do weight training but when practising use a light pistol.
It shows up your trigger errors - painful but it needs to be done.

JamesH wrote: A heavy pistol seems to give an advantage, it appears the wobble is less, and it can mask poor trigger control.
In practise you tire faster.

Very true. When you add weights to the pistol, especially barrel weights out near the muzzle, you increase the pistol's inertia. It will resist sudden movements imparted by poor trigger control, or yips in your wrist. It doesn't fix the problem, but it masks the symptoms of poor control.

While 90 or 100 grams does add slightly to the overall weight of the pistol, it could fatigue the shooter prematurely. While I wouldn't recommend this as a long-term strategy, I suggest that you could overcome the fatigue issue (from 100 gr) faster than eliminating the yips or a poor hold.

If the situation was grave, follow both routes simultaneously: increase the weight while working on your technique AND build your shoulder and core strength. Then, in two months, when you drop the weights, your hold and shot delivery should be noticably improved.

Patrick