Hey guys at Target Talk
I shoot competition for my school with .22 anschutz Rifle and Open sight. Now i am currently running into problems into improving my score. We shoot lying down at 20 Metres from the Target holding the rifle with our left hand and the rifle strap taking the weight.
I don't know what i am doing wrong my scores range from 80-90 but for my mate he's scores are always about 92 and if i don't improve my score i will be dropped from the A's Team as last semester my Average was 90
Can someone suggest what i should do or help me?
Help Me Risk of Being Dropped from Rifle Team (Inadequate)
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
It is extremely difficult to coach over the net, and would help if you posted photos of your position.
Some BASICS to consider are: Do you shoot from a completely relaxed position, allowing the sling and your position to hold up the rifle? Do you shoot during the natural respiratory pasue, using your body to set natural point of aim? Are you using a trigger release methof that does not disturb the sights?
Get into position with the rifle and no ammo, then relax and see where the sights are pointing. adjust your body so the sights are on target, watch the sight set still around the bull. If this works, add dry firing and watch the sight NOT MOVE from around the target. Now try it witha mmo.
You also need to be sure that when you are relaxed in position, with your face on the stock, you can see thru both sights WITHOUT moving your head. If you must move your head, then build up the cheeckpiece with tape and paper until it fits you properly.
You might want to check that the forestock is lying on the meaty part of your thumb, and not in the fingers too.
So many small things can make a big difference, and without seeing you in position everything is a guess at best.
Some BASICS to consider are: Do you shoot from a completely relaxed position, allowing the sling and your position to hold up the rifle? Do you shoot during the natural respiratory pasue, using your body to set natural point of aim? Are you using a trigger release methof that does not disturb the sights?
Get into position with the rifle and no ammo, then relax and see where the sights are pointing. adjust your body so the sights are on target, watch the sight set still around the bull. If this works, add dry firing and watch the sight NOT MOVE from around the target. Now try it witha mmo.
You also need to be sure that when you are relaxed in position, with your face on the stock, you can see thru both sights WITHOUT moving your head. If you must move your head, then build up the cheeckpiece with tape and paper until it fits you properly.
You might want to check that the forestock is lying on the meaty part of your thumb, and not in the fingers too.
So many small things can make a big difference, and without seeing you in position everything is a guess at best.
I echo Gary's comments, in that you need a coach to observe you and suggest some ways to improve your position, techniques etc. As an small aside - what if any training do you do - I mean other than 'just' plain shooting - any drills etc ?GaryN wrote:Don't you have a coach on the team?
I should think that the coach would be helping the shooters rather than the shooters trying to do it all themselves.
Rob.
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Guest
Well that needs to change to get better scores and to improve. Ideally you need a coach, but you can self train / self coach as well. To start with you need a means of identifying problem areas to work on, such as trigger release, follow through etc. But things like body position are much more difficult to self diagnose - apart from more simple things like aches and pains and lack of comfort shooting in position x for example.Anonymous wrote:Basically we shoot twice a week this is our training. We don't do any drills we go in put on the rifle vests pick our rifle go in lie down ear muffs on check scope load ammo shoot...
That's it
Rob.
shooting
Where do you live - if in the US what state? There may be clubs around that have junior rifle programs. They may help you get more time with the rifle and have someone there to critique your position and style. Also, is there any consistency to your bad shots? Are they all low? I would watch your breathing and make sure that you are taking the shot when your position is very still. Make sure that you do not snatch a shot. Make sure that your trigger pull is consistent from sho to shot.
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2650 Plus
Asking for help .
Your request for help is the most valid thing you could have done. The training you have described will only develope bad habits from which you may never recover. Way of The Rifle and Air Rifle Shooting are the best books on shooting published to date but are expensive. also Consider Pullem and Hanecrats Position Rifle shooting or their new release New Position Riflei shooting . If the cost is still out of reach The USAMTU publishes Guides available through the CMP for about $3.00 each that will also provide insight into how to build youir position , Allign the sights and develope you trigger manulipulation correctly. Good Luck And Good Shooting Bill Horton
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
- Location: Berwick, PA
Hi Bcurko,
As had been said, coaching on the net is lame and you have received excellent advice about what to read as well as coaching offers if you are near someone.
I will add my free advice based on common errors I observed while teaching junior shooters the NRA basic rifle marksmanship course. These basic tips will help you get to 95 or prevent you from getting there if not mastered.
1 Keep your left hand relaxed-do not grip the forearm. A large glove that approaches your finger tips helps.
2 Place the sling on your left arm to limit the pulse transmitted through the sling. Place it high or low on your arm. Use a large cuff and a heavy leather jacket if allowed.
3 Squeeze the trigger EVERY time.
4 Follow through on every shot. An overly exaggerated one is best.
5 Practice the position at home to build endurance to the sling pressure (empty rifle).
6 Compare your position to pictures in books.
Good luck!
Ben
As had been said, coaching on the net is lame and you have received excellent advice about what to read as well as coaching offers if you are near someone.
I will add my free advice based on common errors I observed while teaching junior shooters the NRA basic rifle marksmanship course. These basic tips will help you get to 95 or prevent you from getting there if not mastered.
1 Keep your left hand relaxed-do not grip the forearm. A large glove that approaches your finger tips helps.
2 Place the sling on your left arm to limit the pulse transmitted through the sling. Place it high or low on your arm. Use a large cuff and a heavy leather jacket if allowed.
3 Squeeze the trigger EVERY time.
4 Follow through on every shot. An overly exaggerated one is best.
5 Practice the position at home to build endurance to the sling pressure (empty rifle).
6 Compare your position to pictures in books.
Good luck!
Ben
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TAJ
Low scores
First off, to answer one question, I'd say he isn't a US high school shooter - he said his "mate" re scores..........not his wife I'd bet.
All good advice especially the follow thru once the best position is attained with good trigger control. You can blow the whole shot process by relaxing as the shot breaks. Follow thru is just as important as anything preceding it. Also, if you can't settle down, START OVER on the shot delivery. It requires discipline for sure but you can't wish them into the 10 ring......don't ask me why I remember what the college coach said :-(.
The other tip mentioned was getting in the position that has you pointed on target, w/o having to muscle the rifle. If you are using muscle, you've just relegated your shot to mediocre status.
The Military SAMTU manual is an excellent, cheap source of info - as previously stated. Give us a report on down the line - hope you get on the right track. We need more accomplished marksmen. Ciao
All good advice especially the follow thru once the best position is attained with good trigger control. You can blow the whole shot process by relaxing as the shot breaks. Follow thru is just as important as anything preceding it. Also, if you can't settle down, START OVER on the shot delivery. It requires discipline for sure but you can't wish them into the 10 ring......don't ask me why I remember what the college coach said :-(.
The other tip mentioned was getting in the position that has you pointed on target, w/o having to muscle the rifle. If you are using muscle, you've just relegated your shot to mediocre status.
The Military SAMTU manual is an excellent, cheap source of info - as previously stated. Give us a report on down the line - hope you get on the right track. We need more accomplished marksmen. Ciao
ok, relax and dont worry about your score. you cant get workedup over something while you are shooting. also check youre natural point of aim, both verticly and horizontaly. relax and let your sling and bones support the rifle your only efort if any should be looking down and keeping sight alignment. watch the sights and takeup the first stage of you trigger when you hit your breathing pause depending how used to you rifle you are you may "accidentaly" shoot. this is not an accident if you npa is right and its during your breathing pause it shouldbe or close to a ten. work on this and dont get worked up about mistakes
Well thanks for the tips guys,
I had my coach watch me shoot after school in our club's range and he worked out what i was doing wrong and my score improved slightly to an 85... But my major concern is my score is no where near consistent to others hence my average drops and my ratio isn't high enough to be within the 1st Grade.
But i shot during a lunch break at my school with my mate and somehow managed to get a 91? Which made me bloody happy...
Anyways thanks for all the informative advice guys i am now trying to get into the junior development squad with my mate who's scoring the 95's+.
I gotta somehow convince my dad to get his rifle licence so i can get my own .22 Any idea's on what i should look for ?
I also worked out i need to buy gloves and a rifle vest to shoot at the other club with my mate they guys there are quoting me the following for gear.
Rifle Strap : $95AUD
Vest Tailored : $400AUD
Glove : $75AUD
Can i get this stuff from The US Cheaper or anywhere o/s it just seems a bit excessive for a jacket to cost so much when it's being made in china
Thanks guys i can't wait till i am older and can take rifle shooting more seriously !
Cheers Brenton
I had my coach watch me shoot after school in our club's range and he worked out what i was doing wrong and my score improved slightly to an 85... But my major concern is my score is no where near consistent to others hence my average drops and my ratio isn't high enough to be within the 1st Grade.
But i shot during a lunch break at my school with my mate and somehow managed to get a 91? Which made me bloody happy...
Anyways thanks for all the informative advice guys i am now trying to get into the junior development squad with my mate who's scoring the 95's+.
I gotta somehow convince my dad to get his rifle licence so i can get my own .22 Any idea's on what i should look for ?
I also worked out i need to buy gloves and a rifle vest to shoot at the other club with my mate they guys there are quoting me the following for gear.
Rifle Strap : $95AUD
Vest Tailored : $400AUD
Glove : $75AUD
Can i get this stuff from The US Cheaper or anywhere o/s it just seems a bit excessive for a jacket to cost so much when it's being made in china
Thanks guys i can't wait till i am older and can take rifle shooting more seriously !
Cheers Brenton
Hi Brenton,
How old are you and where in Aus are you? Maybe you can ask your dad to take you down to one of the local ISSF shooting style clubs in your area. There you should be able to find someone who can look at your position a bit more and talk to you about equipment more. There are a lot of differnet options for cheap jackets from some basic leather gear, to the Korean Marksman House gear, you just need to find someone with some contacts.
How old are you and where in Aus are you? Maybe you can ask your dad to take you down to one of the local ISSF shooting style clubs in your area. There you should be able to find someone who can look at your position a bit more and talk to you about equipment more. There are a lot of differnet options for cheap jackets from some basic leather gear, to the Korean Marksman House gear, you just need to find someone with some contacts.
What I would suggest is that you and your dad take a trip to the Sydney International Shooting Centre every now and then, which is really not far from you. I think Legion shoots there on Saturdays and some of the top shooters in Australia shoot there. All of them are super friendly and can help you out in all aspects of shooting you just have to go up and ask. The state championships are also there in a few weeks so I reckon you should go down and just check it out.
The people there can give you the best advice on where and when to shoot, where and what gear to get (there may be some second hand gear floating around that might fit you), and who to talk to about coaching and the like.
If you want more help finding info about shooting in your area go to the NSWSARAI website and drop them an email. Their website is:
http://www.nswsarai.com/
The people there can give you the best advice on where and when to shoot, where and what gear to get (there may be some second hand gear floating around that might fit you), and who to talk to about coaching and the like.
If you want more help finding info about shooting in your area go to the NSWSARAI website and drop them an email. Their website is:
http://www.nswsarai.com/
With regards to the people at the centre are you talking about actual shooters or the counter men? I just don't wanna go up to them and annoy them unnecessarily if you know what i mean...
Are there any magazines or books i can look at to further my knowledge of smallbore rifles. I already have my Minors Permit so now i just need a club coach gear and a squad to compete in....
Cheers Brenton
Are there any magazines or books i can look at to further my knowledge of smallbore rifles. I already have my Minors Permit so now i just need a club coach gear and a squad to compete in....
Cheers Brenton
As far as Aussie sites, you can look at the TRA site, there is a bit of training stuff in the "coaching tips" section:
http://tra.org.au/
If you go down to the club on a normal club day there will be at least one coach there and other people that will jump at the chance to to help new shooters. There will also be some experienced shooters training there who are all very nice. If you are worried about it I'm sure your dad can help you out. Just explain that you are new to the sport and are looking for some help and they will be very helpful. All of the NSW coaches I have met are extremely friendly so don't sweat it, they won't mind you going up to them and talking to them.
If you are unsure what to do when you get there just drop an email to them beforehand or get your dad to call them. The phone numbers for the clubs that run out of there are here:
http://www.shootingcentre.nsw.gov.au/ca ... calendar=1
Believe me it is an amazing opportunity to go down there and you won't regret it. It is the best range in Australia, some of the best shooters in Australia shoot there (Warren Potent who just won a bronze at the Olympics shoots at Legion), and some of the best coaches in Australia coach there.
http://tra.org.au/
If you go down to the club on a normal club day there will be at least one coach there and other people that will jump at the chance to to help new shooters. There will also be some experienced shooters training there who are all very nice. If you are worried about it I'm sure your dad can help you out. Just explain that you are new to the sport and are looking for some help and they will be very helpful. All of the NSW coaches I have met are extremely friendly so don't sweat it, they won't mind you going up to them and talking to them.
If you are unsure what to do when you get there just drop an email to them beforehand or get your dad to call them. The phone numbers for the clubs that run out of there are here:
http://www.shootingcentre.nsw.gov.au/ca ... calendar=1
Believe me it is an amazing opportunity to go down there and you won't regret it. It is the best range in Australia, some of the best shooters in Australia shoot there (Warren Potent who just won a bronze at the Olympics shoots at Legion), and some of the best coaches in Australia coach there.
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TargetTerror
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:17 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
+10 on reading everything you can on position shooting. The books mentioned above are among the best in this area.
Another thing that is probably going on is that you are put under WAY too much mental pressure every time you shoot - both by your coach for threatening to kick you off the team, and then by you for not wanting to be kicked off of the team. Both of these pressures will severely undermine your concentration on each shot, particularly if your prior shot was not what you wanted. This is the sort of pressure one would expect in a major match (like the Olympics), but at least those guys have the technical background and years of experience under their belt.
In many ways, shooting is 90% mental and 10% physical, once you get the physical basics down.
All of the advice about going to other shooting areas/programs is very good, and I think is probably the best thing for you at this point. It sounds like you would benefit from some coaching, but more importantly, you would benefit from coaching in a completely neutral, unpressured environment. I've shot on a number of team and matches, in a variety of disciplines. I've been decent on some, and dead last in others (a K31 at 600 yard against Tubbs will do that). But every time I've always just considered the match me against myself, so the only pressure I felt was the pressure that I put on myself that day.
Another thing that is probably going on is that you are put under WAY too much mental pressure every time you shoot - both by your coach for threatening to kick you off the team, and then by you for not wanting to be kicked off of the team. Both of these pressures will severely undermine your concentration on each shot, particularly if your prior shot was not what you wanted. This is the sort of pressure one would expect in a major match (like the Olympics), but at least those guys have the technical background and years of experience under their belt.
In many ways, shooting is 90% mental and 10% physical, once you get the physical basics down.
All of the advice about going to other shooting areas/programs is very good, and I think is probably the best thing for you at this point. It sounds like you would benefit from some coaching, but more importantly, you would benefit from coaching in a completely neutral, unpressured environment. I've shot on a number of team and matches, in a variety of disciplines. I've been decent on some, and dead last in others (a K31 at 600 yard against Tubbs will do that). But every time I've always just considered the match me against myself, so the only pressure I felt was the pressure that I put on myself that day.
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inventor of BB launcher
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I shoot 3 pos. air riffle. So, I will try to explain my position over the net. The idea is to put most of your weight on the left arm,(you should be able to lift your right arm of the ground without much strain). Make sure your left arm is not strait up and down. Lift your right leg up in the direction of the firing line until you can breath comfortably .
(I don't always remember this, however, it would probably help)
At C.M.P. camp they taut us to control our breathing to move the sights up and down. First, breath in, (making the gun move down), then let your breath out (making your gun move up) until your sights are on the 10. Then squeeze the trigger half way, and take a semi-full breath in. then breath out until your sights are on the 10, and squeeze the trigger the rest of the way.
Again, I shoot sporter air riffle. So, your gun may not work the way mine does.( If you use a two-stage trigger, half way would be where you get the tension right before the shot.)
Hope this helps ,and good luck.
(I don't always remember this, however, it would probably help)
At C.M.P. camp they taut us to control our breathing to move the sights up and down. First, breath in, (making the gun move down), then let your breath out (making your gun move up) until your sights are on the 10. Then squeeze the trigger half way, and take a semi-full breath in. then breath out until your sights are on the 10, and squeeze the trigger the rest of the way.
Again, I shoot sporter air riffle. So, your gun may not work the way mine does.( If you use a two-stage trigger, half way would be where you get the tension right before the shot.)
Hope this helps ,and good luck.