TargetTalk

Can anyone give me a general desription of the firearm's laws (related to pistols) in France; or refer me to a website. Also, I need to know about the availability of ranges where a visitor might be able to shoot. I have a student that will be studying there next year and would like to know what she can take with her, and what she needs to do to make it legal.

PaulB wrote:Can anyone give me a general desription of the firearm's laws (related to pistols) in France; or refer me to a website. Also, I need to know about the availability of ranges where a visitor might be able to shoot. I have a student that will be studying there next year and would like to know what she can take with her, and what she needs to do to make it legal.

Depends what calibre you want to shoot and in some cases which region you are in.
Pistols can only be purchased and owned with the prior permission of the departmental prefecture. Permission will only be granted if you are a member of the FFTIR - the shooting federation. You become a member by attending a target shooting club for between 3-12 months depending on your previous experience, attendence and whether the club officials think you are responsible enough for them to sponsor your application - typical annual cost is about 80 Euros, 50 club/30 FFTIR affiliation (insurance). When you are a FFTIR member you need to get a carnet de tir (logbook) - and show 6 months of regular attendance. These 2 documents are needed by the prefecture before they consider your request.
This can be short cut with a European Firearms Pass - which I assume you have not got? I suggest speaking to the person that issues these in the prefecture (regional not local) where she is going and ask their advice.

RobertSW wrote:

PaulB wrote:Can anyone give me a general desription of the firearm's laws (related to pistols) in France; or refer me to a website. Also, I need to know about the availability of ranges where a visitor might be able to shoot. I have a student that will be studying there next year and would like to know what she can take with her, and what she needs to do to make it legal.

Depends what calibre you want to shoot and in some cases which region you are in.
Pistols can only be purchased and owned with the prior permission of the departmental prefecture. Permission will only be granted if you are a member of the FFTIR - the shooting federation. You become a member by attending a target shooting club for between 3-12 months depending on your previous experience, attendence and whether the club officials think you are responsible enough for them to sponsor your application - typical annual cost is about 80 Euros, 50 club/30 FFTIR affiliation (insurance). When you are a FFTIR member you need to get a carnet de tir (logbook) - and show 6 months of regular attendance. These 2 documents are needed by the prefecture before they consider your request.
This can be short cut with a European Firearms Pass - which I assume you have not got? I suggest speaking to the person that issues these in the prefecture (regional not local) where she is going and ask their advice.

The first part of your answer is for buying a firearm pistol in France (AP are free). You forgot to say that the minimal age for owning a firearm is 21 (there are special rules for young high level competition shooters).

The EU pass is first meant for European shooters and I assume that your student is a US citizen, not a citizen from any EU country. It is also meant for shooter coming to participate to a competition, not for people moving to France for a while (here some explanation, sorry it is in French http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 2273.xhtml)

For people wanting to bring firearms in France, the prefecture of the place where she will come to live is the one that can grant permit and is then also the one to contact for questions.

jipe wrote:

RobertSW wrote:

PaulB wrote:Can anyone give me a general desription of the firearm's laws (related to pistols) in France; or refer me to a website. Also, I need to know about the availability of ranges where a visitor might be able to shoot. I have a student that will be studying there next year and would like to know what she can take with her, and what she needs to do to make it legal.

Depends what calibre you want to shoot and in some cases which region you are in.
Pistols can only be purchased and owned with the prior permission of the departmental prefecture. Permission will only be granted if you are a member of the FFTIR - the shooting federation. You become a member by attending a target shooting club for between 3-12 months depending on your previous experience, attendence and whether the club officials think you are responsible enough for them to sponsor your application - typical annual cost is about 80 Euros, 50 club/30 FFTIR affiliation (insurance). When you are a FFTIR member you need to get a carnet de tir (logbook) - and show 6 months of regular attendance. These 2 documents are needed by the prefecture before they consider your request.
This can be short cut with a European Firearms Pass - which I assume you have not got? I suggest speaking to the person that issues these in the prefecture (regional not local) where she is going and ask their advice.

The first part of your answer is for buying a firearm pistol in France (AP are free). You forgot to say that the minimal age for owning a firearm is 21 (there are special rules for young high level competition shooters).

The EU pass is first meant for European shooters and I assume that your student is a US citizen, not a citizen from any EU country. It is also meant for shooter coming to participate to a competition, not for people moving to France for a while (here some explanation, sorry it is in French http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 2273.xhtml)

For people wanting to bring firearms in France, the prefecture of the place where she will come to live is the one that can grant permit and is then also the one to contact for questions.

The process for buying or owning or importing is the same thing in non air pistol categories - at least that is what the regional prefecture told me on Monday this week.
You do not need to be an EU citizen to have an European Firearms pass - for example a US serviceman based in Germany can get one. They are meant for competition visits, but it is a very grey area especially if a competition series is over a few weekends. I had no problems for my first 3 months in France before I got an FFTIR license sorted.

RobertSW

Is there a site in english with info on the EU firearms pass?

Mike M. wrote:Is there a site in english with info on the EU firearms pass?

You can find the only the UK procedure in English.
The EU firearms pass lists individual weapons and is issued to someone who legally holds them in an EU country, eg has a license in that country. Depending on which EU country you are in will depend on what you have to do to get that countries license first and subsequently apply for an EU pass.
EU countries can also add other requirements on top of the EU pass for visitors, and the weapons must be allowed in that country, eg no pistols except air in UK and a visitors form must be completed beforehand stating sponsor rifle/shotgun type etc.
I am a Brit with both a German and a French license, and respective guns listed on German and French EU passes - it is not easy to get to that point!

PaulB,

The bad news seems to be that it is a very complicated and drawn out procedure. The good news is that if she figures it out and gets to target shoot, she will qualify for a degree in International Law 8^)

Misny wrote:PaulB,

The bad news seems to be that it is a very complicated and drawn out procedure. The good news is that if she figures it out and gets to target shoot, she will qualify for a degree in International Law 8^)

Welcome to the concept of gun control.
A simple idea designed to ensure that only responsible, law abiding and safe people have access to weapons. Effective in 99.9% of cases.

In Europe guns are not needed for self defense by the average person. Therefore you have to show a need eg hunting or member of a target shooting club; and you have to attend long enough for people to think you are not a fruit loop who would be a danger to anyone and a subsequent threat to the sport itself.

Here in the United States, where we place a high value on personal liberty, we find that only a miniscule percentage of folks misuse firearms, even though we have widespread firearms ownership. A slightly altered quote by Benjamin Franklin, one of our founding fathers who, by the way, spent considerable time in France, is found in the Statue of Liberty, a gift from the people of France. It says, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Misny wrote:Here in the United States, where we place a high value on personal liberty, we find that only a miniscule percentage of folks misuse firearms, even though we have widespread firearms ownership. A slightly altered quote by Benjamin Franklin, one of our founding fathers who, by the way, spent considerable time in France, is found in the Statue of Liberty, a gift from the people of France. It says, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Here in europe we also value personal liberty and safety. We're not that much different. Our priorities are probably a bit more biased towards safety and a bit less towards liberty, but that's all.
Ben's statement was probably great at the time, but modern society has moved way beyond that during the last 100 years. In a modern european context it bears no meaning eanymore, and I suspect it doesn't in the US (internally) either.
In socities around the world of a less developed state than ours (middle east, far east) it's probably still very valid, though.

Short version: In europe you need to demonstrate that you're a sportsshooter or hunter, and not a suicidal nut, before you're allowed to own firearms. And you're still NOT allowed to carry them loaded. In germany you're only allowed to transport pistols in a locked casing, separate from ammo.

Best regards,
Claus Rittig, Denmark
(Very active sportsshooter around europe)

Dragging this back to the original topic....

The student in question probably needs to be a USAS member with some sort of competitive record, simply to establish that they are legitimate sport shooters. Then, contact the French Embassy.

Remember, France is NOT the UK. The French are not irrational about firearms ownership. I suspect that if you can show that you are a moderately serious competitive shooter, you should have no problems.

Yes, may be some important information to remember:
- there is no common law about firearms (and air arms) in Europe => each country has his own regulation/law. The EU firearms pass is common but the rules to deliver it are specific to each country: its the country who delivered the firearms ownership autorisation that will deliver the EU firearms pass.
- UK is an exception: in almost all other countries (I say almost because I do not know the regulation/law in all EU countries especially the new members, but actually I only know UK to completely ban short firearms) it is possible for a sport shooter to own short firearms. In almost all countries, the ownership autorisation is linked to the practice of sport shooting (or hunting for hunting weapons).
- this means that, as Mike M says, it would help a lot to be able to prove membership to any sport shooter organisation with prove of participation to competition (it does not need to be high level or international coimpetition, even local/club will help), proving a long time membership is much better (several years sport shooting).
- since the laws are specific for each country, you should take information in the destination country. Now, if it is too difficult in the destination country, moving first to another, less strict, EU country might be an option due to the EU firearm pass.

On the French Shooting Federation web site http://www.fftir.org you can search for the clubs either by the town or department (ex. Paris is 75). Look at the the bottom of the third column of the web page "Trouver un club". You can also filter to see if there the club has the shooting range.

Based on the my club regulations, I would say that most clubs allow visitors and firearm can be rented for shooting session, but the memebership at french shooting federation should be required.

From what I found by reading the firearm laws, your student will be able to apply for a firearm permit once the residence in France established.

Like mentioned in previous posts, the procedure is quite long. Three control sessions in 9 months period are required before the request can be made. Then you need to wait from 3 months up to one year.

If I could be of any further help, you can contact me by mail at nboric@contexte.fr

Regards,

Ned

Then you need to wait from 3 months up to one year.

sounds like New York

you're only allowed to transport pistols in a locked casing, separate from ammo.

sounds like Kalifornia

Bill Poole wrote:

Then you need to wait from 3 months up to one year.

sounds like New York

you're only allowed to transport pistols in a locked casing, separate from ammo.

sounds like Kalifornia

All sounds eminently sensible to me, and similar to a lot of other countries.

Rob.