TargetTalk

This title says it all.

I live in a country that tightly restricts all guns and licenses are VERY HARD to come by. Usually, once the cops approve a purchase and possession license, we hope that the gun performs as expected for at least 10 years because the authorities usually DO NOT approve repair permits and export permits to send the piece back to the factory are NEVER approved.

I intend to buy a .32 autoloader for ISSF centrefire practice sometime in 4/5 months time and as explained above, I CANNOT AFFORD to buy a lemon and have the thing breakdown due to a 150rd/week ammo diet.

The ONLY civilian gun dealer in my country has either SP20s or GSP experts for sale and as SP20s seem to have fragility issues on this forum, would it be a safer bet for me to buy a GSP expert?

I see that the barrel is slightly shorter on the GSP. Will it signigicantly affect accuracy vis-a-vis the SP20? Will muzzle velocity be compromised?
Is the GSP inherently more inaccurate than the SP20?

Lastly, the ONLY brand of .32 wadcutter available locally is Magtech. Has anyone here ever chronographed Magtech? It seems to have a heavier kick than fiocchi when fired out of a very old Hammerli 208.

Aw....c'mon guys. Doesen't ANYONE have an opinion?

Well probably getting no answer cause you have no name.

Also I don't think anyone can tell you which one to buy in regards to getting a lemon, unfortunately all manufactures ocassionally make lemons.

The laws of physics apply to both pistols so a short barrell will obviously give you lower velocity with the same load and bullet fit. The guns are design to function and shoot groups at 25m and both will shoot acceptable groups at 25m. 32. accuracy suffer whne shooting 50 yards in the NRA Bullseye events.

As for Magtech ammo, never heard of it.

The GSP has been around longer so for the most part has very few design flaws (if thats the real question), but it's still susceptable to manufacturing flaws like all other. Now Hammerli went under and was bought by Walther, at this point they seem to plan to still carry both lines, but that could change, if I was a gambling man I would bet if they were to drop one the Hammerlii would be the one. So as Walther is now Hammerli I would suspect support would be about the same.

Given your country's laws, what are the legalities of spare parts?
Here's a thought; since the GSP has been in production for decades, you will probably have an easier time keeping it in running order. I would imagine, but am not sure, that there are a lot of parts common to the GSP expert and the GSP that we have all known for years. I'm thinking about firing pins, extractors, recoil springs, etc.
I think magtech is pretty good. If you scroll through recent posts you will find a lively post on CF back about 2 months in which someone attached a very interesting accuracy comparison of numerous gun/ammo combinations.
Is handloading an option for you?

Spare parts can be had legally but my worry is the frame of the SP20 cracking. If that happens, I don't think that repairs and replacement are within the capability of the one and only civilian gunsmith.

The issue is that I can given to understand that GSP Experts are more durable with an all steel construction than the SP20 which has some composite components. Is this true?

What is the expected round count life of a centrefire .32 match pistol?

Usually a question such as this will draw many replies, but something just seems a little funny here. Why don't you give us a name and tell us what country you live in, that has such restrictive laws? In any case, I suspect you already know the answer to your question. If the choice is between the Walther GSP and the Hammerli SP20, and if the overwhelming deciding factor is durability/reliability, the Walther is such an obvious choice as to be a no-brainer. For all of the other concerns you mentioned, the differences between the two guns are so small that they are insignificant, especially at the 25M ISSF CF distance.

HTH,
FredB

Anonymous wrote:Spare parts can be had legally but my worry is the frame of the SP20 cracking. If that happens, I don't think that repairs and replacement are within the capability of the one and only civilian gunsmith.

When the frame cracks you just buy a new one and rebuild the gun using it.

If the gunsmith cannot handle that then he isn't one.

Magtech was a later “brand” of CBC – Brazil.

Re Hammerli, the only .22 frames I have known to crack are when fed with CBC and these were 280 frames not SP20 frames as the SP20 post dated the issues with CBC.

The .32 Hammerli frames crack on factor ammunition and I have detailed in previous posts. As David mentioned, they are easily replaced, however, the majority of units have integral grips and re-manufacturing a grip really irritates when the frame cracks.

As for the Walther, I had a good look at it and even shot one. Nice but I would wait until at least the first series of factory modifications have been made.

PaulT wrote:Magtech was a later “brand” of CBC – Brazil.

Re Hammerli, the only .22 frames I have known to crack are when fed with CBC and these were 280 frames not SP20 frames as the SP20 post dated the issues with CBC.

The .32 Hammerli frames crack on factor ammunition and I have detailed in previous posts. As David mentioned, they are easily replaced, however, the majority of units have integral grips and re-manufacturing a grip really irritates when the frame cracks.

As for the Walther, I had a good look at it and even shot one. Nice but I would wait until at least the first series of factory modifications have been made.

Paul I think you might be confussing the GSP Expert with the New Walther SSP.

The GSP expert is basically functionally the same as the old GSP which has been around for 30 plus years (it just as a recoil absorbing system) and even thats been around for around 4-5 years now so I don't think there are any modifications coming. The SSP is Walthers totally new pistol and I would probably agree to wait on that one, especially if its going to be your only pistol or its hard to get support for Walther where you live.

Indeed I was! I used to own a GSP. The SSP is a most different animal.

PaulT:

Can I then assume that Magtech ammo is hotter than other brands? Their website seems to list the muzzle velocity as being in the high 600s/ft/s. This hardly qualifies as fast.

No the CBC/Magtech issue was about 10-12 years ago and double charged .22 rimfire was eventually found to be the cause. At about the same time, in the .32, several batches with insufficient powder in 6-10 rounds in a box of 50, the problem was, they did not mark these cases :-)
Not used CBC/Magtech rimfire since, not available in the UK and the .32 is still in use as training ammunition and apart from the occasional soft shot (say 1 on 250/500), good low cost training ammo.

I own both, The Hammerli is a model 280, predessor to the SP20. The Walther is a GSP. Gun of choice the Walther. You will not notice any significant loss in accuracy or velocity, as I have chronographed both and both have been test fired in a Ransom Rest. They both shoot to one hole. I have both .22 and .32 cal. in both guns

I know the subject is GSP/SP20, but if I was forced to shoot with such severe restrictions, I would use a Manuhrin .32 revolver...fabulous quality, and reliability to spare. I have owned a Hammerli 280 in .32, and a GSP in .32. Both are fine guns, but reliability is always going to be more suspect than a revolver.

Since Walther bought out Hammerli, I would think that the only real difference in either gun would be cosmetic, although the pistols look 98% identical. I would strongly advise against the .32 caliber as it is an odd-ball caliber even here in the USA. I would stay with the .22 caliber. It is much more accurate and far cheaper.

I am considering a Walther GSP-Expert and would consider the 6-1/2" barrel upgrade as an option. I heard the standard barrel falls short at 50 yards. It makes sense since it is only 4-1/2" long. Accuracy goes beyond barrel length alone, although a longer barrel does give better accuracy.

It's a tough question. I'm deciding on a Walther GSP because the balance is great despite the short barrel. I would like to see some 50 yard groups with the GSP compared to other .22's. I would also like to see 50 yard groups with the 6-1/2" barrel. With a barrel that long on an already front heavy gun, it may be too much.

I beleive the original question is related to .32 cal, not .22.

You guys do realize that the original question was asked almost three years ago right?

AntoniScott wrote:Since Walther bought out Hammerli, I would think that the only real difference in either gun would be cosmetic, although the pistols look 98% identical. I would strongly advise against the .32 caliber as it is an odd-ball caliber even here in the USA. I would stay with the .22 caliber. It is much more accurate and far cheaper.

I am considering a Walther GSP-Expert and would consider the 6-1/2" barrel upgrade as an option. I heard the standard barrel falls short at 50 yards. It makes sense since it is only 4-1/2" long. Accuracy goes beyond barrel length alone, although a longer barrel does give better accuracy.

It's a tough question. I'm deciding on a Walther GSP because the balance is great despite the short barrel. I would like to see some 50 yard groups with the GSP compared to other .22's. I would also like to see 50 yard groups with the 6-1/2" barrel. With a barrel that long on an already front heavy gun, it may be too much.

The GSP expert (= a GSP with a new barrel weigth) has nothing in common with the SP20, they are completely different design.

The long barrel has no interest: with the such a barrel, the GSP doesn't comply anymore to the standard pistol rules without bringing any real benefit.

AntoniScott wrote: Since Walther bought out Hammerli, I would think that the only real difference in either gun would be cosmetic, although the pistols look 98% identical.

You haven't actually seen both guns right?

Well, they both have some blue parts, mostly - LOL :-D