TargetTalk

Can wheelguns be competitive? As I look at .45's, the price of a wadgun is certainly out of the question. I know taurus and S&W both make .45 acp's, and both are very accurate, but are the practical? It seems that a nice revolver in .45 is a much cheaper way to shoot decent groups. I think that the Taurus has a rail for a red dot. The only drawback I see is the thumb cocking.

At Camp Perry (revolver matches excluded) I think I can count the number of revolver shooters on one hand.

Short answer to your question is yes, but darned few people have the training time available to be competitive.

If you are already skilled w/ a 45 revolver and are willing to put in the time and effort to master timed and rapid fire using it, then give it a try. But I wouldn't buy a 45 revolver otherwise, just for the sake of saving a little money.

The only drawback I see is the thumb cocking.

there's the rub

Some of the best deals I've come across have been for used wad and ball guns. These will often sell for a slight premium over an unaccurized example of the same model, grade, and vintage. It seems to be hard to get your money back on match components and services.

Reference above post, The thumb is obsolete . Spend the money and at least have a chance to reach the master class. IMHO top master is impossible with a revolver. In the history of our national matches only Harry Reves and Bill Mc millan were truly competitive with wheel guns and they are both dead now . Others tried but had no success after our gunsmiths learned to properly zero tolerance the 1911. This is truly a case where you have to buy the best to have any chance of winning. Sorry to sound so negative but only dissapointment lies ahead in the course you have embarked upon. No matter what your decision is I wish you good luck and may you enjoy the journey. Good shooting Bill Horton

Winning huh. What happened to learning? You have to learn to shoot before you can shoot to win. Actually I don't much care about winning. The saying goes you compete against yourself. Me, I'm still learning. You can learn quite well on a revolver.

My 2 cents invlolves a .22, but same concepts....

I got back into pistol shooting a while back with a S&W model 17 revolver. When I decided to try Bullseye, I had the same question. The gun was certainly mechanically capable of X-ring accuracy. I got pretty decent at slow fire. And with some practice I was shooting timed, then rapid fire in single action (not as difficult as you may think).

The biggest problem I found was this - When you cock the hammer between shots, your hand twists a bit, and it's not the grip it should be when you go to fire (maybe just me, but....). I felt as if I might get to a certain level, then this would handicap me.

So I moved to semi-auto's, currently shooting a Benelli. And yes, there's certainly something to be said for better/more appropriate equipment helping you to become a better shooter, quicker.

I think the revolver is a cool novelty, and if they had a Bullseye league for them, I'd jump in. But as it sits, I prefer to use a tool better suited to the job.

P.S. - I suppose if you got a super light/slick action job and colud use double-action, that would alleviate my problem. But again, you're really just putting effort into modifying something, when there's better options out there...

I'll agree that shooting a wheelgun puts you at a disadvantage. However, the Distinguished Revolver matches are becoming very, very popular. Don't hesitate to get yourself a K-38 or a Python and give it a whirl. I've always considered mastery of the revovler to be one of the accomplishments of a truly expert pistol shooter.

There is nothing wrong with shooting for fun, Its just more fun to shoot to win. This requires one to train intelligently developes character and determination,plus a deep understanding of ones own limitations,and strengths. I have shot a tin can or two myself. I prefer standing shoulder to shoulder with a skilled shooter and doing my best to shoot at least one more ten than he does. Different strokes for different folks. Good Shooting Bill Horton

The biggest problem I found was this - When you cock the hammer between shots, your hand twists a bit, and it's not the grip it should be when you go to fire (maybe just me, but....). I felt as if I might get to a certain level, then this would handicap me.

I've encountered something similar - it seems impossible to maintain a consistent grip and so your POI shifts. With practice I've learned to accommodate this, but it is a handicap.

Anatomical grips would probably help, but you can't use these for DR matches.

Nonetheless it is an enjoyable challenge to shoot rapid fire well with a revolver.

2650 Plus wrote: In the history of our national matches only Harry Reeves and Bill Mc millan were truly competitive with wheel guns and they are both dead now . Others tried but had no success after our gunsmiths learned to properly zero tolerance the 1911. Bill Horton

I think Martin "Babe" Magnan might differ with you about that. Check out his Perry scores and revolvers. He's also been over 2650 with wheels.

2650 Plus wrote:There is nothing wrong with shooting for fun, Its just more fun to shoot to win. This requires one to train intelligently developes character and determination,plus a deep understanding of ones own limitations,and strengths. I have shot a tin can or two myself. I prefer standing shoulder to shoulder with a skilled shooter and doing my best to shoot at least one more ten than he does. Different strokes for different folks. Good Shooting Bill Horton

I guess I'll go out and plink some more 870s. Gotta develop that character some more.

:)

I've been trying revolver for bullseye, as practice for the DR match.

I may not win, but I do get to laugh at my friends while they scurry around, crouched down, looking for brass, as I toss my full moon clips into the bag.

HBfromstl wrote:.... I think that the Taurus has a rail for a red dot....

The interesting twist here that it sounds like everyone is discounting is the idea of a dot on the revolver. All of our DR shooting and the other revolver shooting I see some do at the matches is with open sights, which for most of us is considerably more difficult, or at least results in lower scores. I don't know how your eyes are for open sight shooting at a bullseye level (requires fairly sharp vision) but for many of us who are not so young any more the dot offers a real advantage to keep us in the game in a more competitive way. I know my scores are generally 10-15 points higher on a NMC with the dot over open sights (yeah, I know I need to work more on that).

The rapid thumb action required during rapid fire is something that definitely takes a little practice, but can be learned with a little dry fire. As pointed out before the chance exists to buy a used BE gun for less than the full prices you see listed, and the Bullseye-L list is the best place for that, having more bullseye shooters than any other location by far. If you're not familiar with it you can sign up at http://users.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/ . Good luck and I hope you can come up with a combination that will work for you.

You will be at a great disadvantage with a revolver, even with a red dot, IMO.

Bill

to play devil's advocate..

I can see an argument for using a revolver for centerfire - e.g. using a 32 or 38spl wadcutter. A match/target revolver ( e.g. a Model 14 or Colt OMM ), in this case, is likely to be more accurate than most autoloading options at 50yds.

The test is whether any points gained in slow-fire are lost in timed and rapid. In my experience, it's not the cocking action in and of itself that's the problem, it's the affect on your grip. If you could control this by a combination of technique and grip design, there may be a real advantage to using a revolver in this stage.

solomon grundy wrote:to play devil's advocate..

I can see an argument for using a revolver for centerfire - e.g. using a 32 or 38spl wadcutter. A match/target revolver ( e.g. a Model 14 or Colt OMM ), in this case, is likely to be more accurate than most autoloading options at 50yds.

The test is whether any points gained in slow-fire are lost in timed and rapid. In my experience, it's not the cocking action in and of itself that's the problem, it's the affect on your grip. If you could control this by a combination of technique and grip design, there may be a real advantage to using a revolver in this stage.

Indeed a custom grip like a Randall Fung made grip will stabilize the timed and rapid hold. I have no doubt that my revolver has a clean 900 in it. (I only have to persuade it to come out. :) The grip restriction in Distinguished Revolver will take a bit more practice to hang on in T&R.

I wouldn't bother with a Fung grip. I have one for a K38. It's too short, despite the fact that I'd provided a trace and measurements. The palm swell is too shallow, and worst of all, it misaligns the revolver. The only way that you can bring the sights on-target is by bending your wrist.

He's a nice guy, and his grips look very nice, but I can't recommend them.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bother with a Fung grip. I have one for a K38. It's too short, despite the fact that I'd provided a trace and measurements. The palm swell is too shallow, and worst of all, it misaligns the revolver. The only way that you can bring the sights on-target is by bending your wrist.

He's a nice guy, and his grips look very nice, but I can't recommend them.

Mr Anonymous
You should have worked with Mr Fung to get the grips right. My two revolver grips (K frame and N frame) are perfect in every way.

I REMEMBER WHEN I STARTED SHOOTING BULLSEYE IN THE 1960's. THERE WAS A POLICE OFFICER FROM THE LOS ANGELES P.D. THAT WOULD SHOOT REVOLVERS IF HE CONSIDERED COMPETITION WAS WEAK. HIS NAME WAS JOHN HURST AND HE COULD BREAK 2600 WITH REVOLVERS.I CANT REMEMBER IF HE SHOT DOUBLE ACTION FOR THE RAPID FIRE STAGE BUT I KNOW MANY PPC REVOLVERS HAVE A STOP BEHIND TRIGGER THAT ALLOWS SHOOTER TO SHOOT DOUBLE ACTION WITH SINGLE ACTION PRECISION. I DONT KNOW IF THIS MODIFICATION IS ALLOWED FOR THE DISTINGUISHED REVOLVER MATCH BUT IF IT IS IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTH TRYING. WE USED TO GLUE A PIECE OF PENCIL ERASER BEHIND TRIGGER GUARD AND ADJUSTED WHERE HAMMER ALMOST COMES OFF TRIGGER AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ALLOWS HAMMER TO FALL.
IF THIS MODIFICATION IS ALLOWED FOR INTERNATIONAL SHOOTING IT COULD DO AWAY WITH OBJECTION THAT COCKING CHANGES HAND POSITION.

OLD DOG wrote:I REMEMBER WHEN I STARTED SHOOTING BULLSEYE IN THE 1960's. THERE WAS A POLICE OFFICER FROM THE LOS ANGELES P.D. THAT WOULD SHOOT REVOLVERS IF HE CONSIDERED COMPETITION WAS WEAK. HIS NAME WAS JOHN HURST AND HE COULD BREAK 2600 WITH REVOLVERS.I CANT REMEMBER IF HE SHOT DOUBLE ACTION FOR THE RAPID FIRE STAGE BUT I KNOW MANY PPC REVOLVERS HAVE A STOP BEHIND TRIGGER THAT ALLOWS SHOOTER TO SHOOT DOUBLE ACTION WITH SINGLE ACTION PRECISION. I DONT KNOW IF THIS MODIFICATION IS ALLOWED FOR THE DISTINGUISHED REVOLVER MATCH BUT IF IT IS IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTH TRYING. WE USED TO GLUE A PIECE OF PENCIL ERASER BEHIND TRIGGER GUARD AND ADJUSTED WHERE HAMMER ALMOST COMES OFF TRIGGER AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ALLOWS HAMMER TO FALL.
IF THIS MODIFICATION IS ALLOWED FOR INTERNATIONAL SHOOTING IT COULD DO AWAY WITH OBJECTION THAT COCKING CHANGES HAND POSITION.

I had forgotten about that eraser mod! Yes, it worked very well. Some of the better PPC gunsmiths, like Powers, could alter the sear to provide staging without the use of an eraser. Using this technique for one hand shooting would require considerable training and hand strength.