TargetTalk

Greetings folks,

I feel as though I've hit a plateau with my air pistol shooting, though it May just be a slow development period. First, some history:

I'm 33 and started shooting about 25 years ago with a Daisy BB gun. Moved on to .22lr, and finished HS in '92 by shooting both .22lr and Air Rifle (WY state champion in both disciplines, would have been Jr. Olympic too but for some funky rules that no longer exist). Took a few years break and was reintroduced with a gift of an IZH46m from my father. Anyway, I have a good bit of formal training in the mental aspects (still do, my father still coaches Jr shooters at our range). What I've had very little of is help on the physical aspect, though that did seem to come easily... nothing like growing up learning 4P rifle shooting to make pistol shooting seem easy.

So, where I am now: I kinda "plinked" for the first season (I've only been shooting from Oct~May as a season), got serious and did a postal and the local PTO last season with positive results, and am starting on this season. Scores rose quickly initially and then leveled out to the point where I'm stuck now. They're not Bad scores, by any means. Of the 5-shot groups, I probably have 20% in the 48/50 range, 70% in the 46/50 area and the last 10% 42~43/50. But I KNOW I'm capable of shooting a 9.6 shot average (48/50), and expect to see one on each 4-bull target.

The couple of items I know have an impact (and they may just be the whole shebang), I only shoot part time through a year, and only about 2 hours a week of pistol with another hour or two for rifle. And I have issues focusing on the front sight 100% of the time ~ I'm looking into shooting glasses with interchangeable optics to help place my focus on the front sight though (an eye test less than a year ago had me with 20/20 vision, so no corrective lenses to worry about.)

My goal is to have a 9.5 shot average (47/50, 190/200, 570/600).

Other items that Might be asked about, I'm reasonably fit (still take stairs 2 at a time and have a light exercise program, but never on shooting days). I rarely drink any caffeine or alcohol, eat a healthy diet, etc.

So, thoughts or comments? Thanks in advance!

Brian

ShootingAir.com

for what it is worth, if you are getting some 48/50, some 46/50 you must be doing a lot right, not much wrong.

need to work out exactly what you are doing in these periods and work at maintaining this throughout the 60 shots.

setting score related goals is always going to create issues you are describing.
It is likely you have leveled off as now you are result oriented, when starting out you were just trying to shoot properly, no expectations.

just my opinion.

bryan

I think your goals are sort of unreasonable, if I understand you right you want to shoot world class air pistol scores by practicing two hours a week.

I agree with Richard. 48/50 is your peak (lucky) score. Your average score based on 100 times the number of shots is more revealing. Work on your average, not your peaks. And reality sucks.

I agree with Bryan. Forget about score. Go back to executing a technically perfect shot - front sight in focus and aligned in rear notch, undisturbed by trigger to release the shot, and follow through - each and every time.

And, contrary to some advice on TT, spend time developing a steady hold. I doubt two hours a week is sufficient time.

One additional small point to add to the good advice given above, and that has to do with glasses.

Like you, I was "diagnosed" with 20/20 or better vision. But then I started to have trouble focusing on the front sight when I was tired. That's when I started to learn about shooting glasses. By adding a slight corrective lense (+0.5 diopter) I was able to artificially make myself slightly short-sighted, thus making it much easier to focus on the front sight.

You're at an age now where a slight correction may be necessary to facilitate easier focusing on the front sight. Your optician will tell you that you don't need a corrective lense, and he's right. But if you take the time to explain to him that you need to have very precise focus at a point that's 33 or 34 inches from your eye (or whatever your personal eyeball-to-front-sight measurement is) then he will understand why you might wish to "correct" your vision.

Also, please note that our sponsor sells both shooting glasses and lenses in +0.25 diopter increments. The lenses are priced at a point that no optician can touch. I've purchased several lenses from Scott and can vouch for their quality, so buy with confidence.

I'm well aware of the whole general idea of "Don't pay attention to scores"... but I challenge anyone who says that to find one other universally accepted unit of measurement within this sport. Please. I don't know of one, and if it exists I want to be made aware of it. I'm also well aware of my own personal shot routine and when I feel I've made the perfect execution of that routine. I'm looking to increase the frequency of those perfect routines, just as everyone is. The results just happen to be measured in numbers, marked by holes on targets.

I also do NOT see a 9.5 shot average as being world class. 9.75, absolutely ~ but there's a BIG difference there. 9.5 is good enough to be a contender for first in most US matches, but horribly out-ranked in the world competitions (at least from what I've seen of scores). I also pointed out that I don't shoot much and figured that was part of the problem. I'm not sure if I'm willing to make much of a change at this point in time, though I'm pretty sure that I WILL be willing to make the commitment in 2 years.

As for goals, do you mean to tell me that you endorse setting Only goals you think are achievable? And you don't bother setting goals that push your development, and test yourself? I've never heard anyone say less than "Reach for the stars" when setting goals. Me, I *KNOW*, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I can have a 9.5 shot average, so it's a short term goal (the local PTO at the end of this season). My goal is just to get where I know I'm capable of being. My long term goal is much higher than that. ;) I know that goal setting, even when they seem out in left field, works. So you'll pardon me if I choose to ignore the comments on my personal goals.

But that leaves me where I was before... knowing that I need to invest more time in training, and that I should be begging a pair of shooting glasses off of the one guy who has a pair so I can be more certain about the cash outlay.

Still, thanks for the opinions ~ I just don't happen to fully agree with some of them.

Brian

ShootingAir.com

Brian:

Focus on PROCESS measures, not OUTCOME measures. This may not be a "generally accepted approach" to your way of thinking, but world-class performance is not "generally accepted" either (think about it). Approaching training the way "everybody else does it" will result in "everybody else does it" performance.

A coach who says "shoot more tens" is useless to help you progress. A couch who says "focus on the front sight" will help you achieve.

A performance measure that captures the "number of tens" is useless to help you achieve progress. A performance measure that captures the quality of your focus on the front sight will help you achieve.

That having been said

Measure the right things (desirable behaviors). Then, design your training efforts around improving outcomes related to those behaviors.

The most important part of all this is figuring out what is meant by "Desirable Behaviors" and "Improvement."

Steve Swartz


Aside to Fred: Following the principles above, how would you assess "quality of hold?" If your performance is not acceptable/improving with respect to "quality of hold" then by all means you should be focusing training efforts in this area. The disagreement in this forum on training for hold (since I am always in the middle of the controversy, I feel qualified to comment on it) is not about whether or not training for a better hold is USEFUL but is about how much performance is ACCEPTABLE or DESIRED. And how you define the "Proper Behavior" and what constitutes ""Improvement." The point is, you don't need a "9 ring hold" (let alone a "ten ring hold") in order to shoot a ten. And the definition even of "A Tighter Hold" can vary, as can the definition of "Improvement." What you need is a "sufficiently" settled (predictable) hold that allows you to shoot a ten. Very different things. Indeed, many "hold training exercises" actually can HARM your ability to reliably release a ten.

What constitutes "Desireable Behavior" with respect to the technique element "Hold?" And what constitutes "Better" with respect to that behavior?

Now *there's* an intersting (and useful) conversation . . .

Brian M wrote:I'm well aware of the whole general idea of "Don't pay attention to scores"... but I challenge anyone who says that to find one other universally accepted unit of measurement within this sport. Please. I don't know of one, and if it exists I want to be made aware of it. I'm also well aware of my own personal shot routine and when I feel I've made the perfect execution of that routine. I'm looking to increase the frequency of those perfect routines, just as everyone is. The results just happen to be measured in numbers, marked by holes on targets.

I also do NOT see a 9.5 shot average as being world class. 9.75, absolutely ~ but there's a BIG difference there. 9.5 is good enough to be a contender for first in most US matches, but horribly out-ranked in the world competitions (at least from what I've seen of scores). I also pointed out that I don't shoot much and figured that was part of the problem. I'm not sure if I'm willing to make much of a change at this point in time, though I'm pretty sure that I WILL be willing to make the commitment in 2 years.

As for goals, do you mean to tell me that you endorse setting Only goals you think are achievable? And you don't bother setting goals that push your development, and test yourself? I've never heard anyone say less than "Reach for the stars" when setting goals. Me, I *KNOW*, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I can have a 9.5 shot average, so it's a short term goal (the local PTO at the end of this season). My goal is just to get where I know I'm capable of being. My long term goal is much higher than that. ;) I know that goal setting, even when they seem out in left field, works. So you'll pardon me if I choose to ignore the comments on my personal goals.

But that leaves me where I was before... knowing that I need to invest more time in training, and that I should be begging a pair of shooting glasses off of the one guy who has a pair so I can be more certain about the cash outlay.

Still, thanks for the opinions ~ I just don't happen to fully agree with some of them.

Brian

Well there's goal setting and wishing, if you don't have a plan to acheive your goal its a wish. Shooting only 2 hours a week only part of the year is not a plan to get to a 570 average.

You said you wanted to average 570, that means you are going to have to shoot higher than that roughly half the time, because you'll likely shoot lower than that the other half.

The World Cup results for 2007 have 338 10m Pistol results 42% are 575 or above (142), that means 58% of the shooters shoot less than 575, 211 are 570 or above (62.5 %) and 297 are 560 + (87.8 %). So shooting an average of 570 is a World Class score.


Looking at the shooting break down that you provided "20% in the 48/50 range, 70% in the 46/50 area and the last 10% 42~43/50" this only works out to the 550 ish area (91 to 92 average area). So you have a long way to go to get to a 95 average. After the 540 and 550 the points become really hard to come by.

The other important thing is what your actual competition scores are, there are all sort of basement champions, but that really doesn't mean anything. There is only one way to improve your scores and that requires putting more time in. Time in training Physical and mental, time shooting more matches. It's pretty impressive that you have got to where you are only shooting two hours/week part of the year. If you can't put more time in then just shoot to enjoy, theres nothing wrong with that, then in two years if you got the time you can start training seriously.

Bryan, I train more every day than you do per week. In spite of some of the information on this post , Shooting high scores is easy, but training to shoot them may be the hardest thing you will ever attempt to do. Many of the steps to firing a perfect shot must be repeated until they become sub concious. That is you have to be able to apply pressure to the trigger while you are thinking only thoughts about sight allignment and are maintaining perfect focus on the front sight until after the shot has fired.And here is another tip. This process must be totally positive in nature as even the slightest doubt about results will inhibit the sub concious part of the shot sequence. If you have any thoughts about it not being necessary to hold the pistol still , Please read Blankenships three requirements to fire a good shot. The last is hold the gun still.First is steadily increasing pressure on the trigger, And the most important of all is focus eyes and mind on perfecting sight allignment before the pistol fires. By the way I also use the value of shots on target as the way I measure my performance. Good Shooting Bill Horton