TOZ 35M problems!
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Sekiar
TOZ 35M problems!
I have just purchased a used TOZ 35M with case. The case was junk, however the pistol looks clean and good. It just doesn't function. Got the breif manual and I think I under stand some of how it works. I dropped the accelerator and cleaned it. The gun will cock but will not fire. Here's what I'm seeing....the accelerator firing pin is loose with zero spring tension. The large accelerator spring is in place but not doing anything...I see the acc firing pin has a sear like part on the bottom that I can push on and make the gun fire....what am I'm missing? At this point I'm about ready to call the dealer in the morning and send the mess back. However even though I'm left handed I would like to have a working gun. Thanks in advance, Charles
TOZ
I too fell victim tothose cheap TOZ prices and bought 2 - one that worked and one that did not work. I did not mind because I wanted to learn about the TOZ.
Are you talking about the firing pin "Block"? If so, did you disassemble it? There is a coil spring inside. There is a S and W spring that you can use in its place. I will look for the number for you. I am going to copy a set of instructions that another "lister" gave me as they might come in handy in the future.
BTW, I had to purchase 2 parts for my non working TOZ - a total of $80.00. I think I paid $300 for one and $400 for the other. If they work out I will sell the "new" one I bought from Pikington.
Here is the info:
I do not have the TOZ exploded drawing and its parts list handy. So, please bear with me with my terminology of the trigger assembly's parts. The three parts in that assembly are intimately connected together.
Looking from the rear sight towards the muzzle, the "little finger" on your left is the one that stands straight up against the long leaf-spring that you would adjust triggering force with.
The other two, one you correctly named the "hammer" and the third one, the "hook"/(sear) that retains your "hammer".
The 2 small leaf-springs that you asked about, the upper one is the limiter (limiting how far back the "little finger" can come back), and the one below it supplies spring force to the "little finger".
The hammer is powered by the "accelerator" spring which is the last part that you would snug down when you work on the internals of the assembly; and the "hook" is controlled by the "little finger".
I suspect that the reason your "hook" is frailing around is because it is disconnected from the "little finger" (hopefully, see below, that neither part is broken beyond where you can easily see).
The bottom of the "little finger" has a tiny pin that cantilevers out to its right to engage the "inverted horse-shoe' bottom of the "hook".
If, at some time, the "limiter" was out of position, and the "little finger" was allowed to come back beyond where the "limiter" would have stopped it; then its cantilever pin would get out of the "inverted horse-shoe"....and the "hook" is now on its own.
You can easily reset the cantilever pin back into the "inverted horse-shoe" by placing the 2 little springs in their correct positions BUT with their hold-down screw very much loosened so it is practically applying little/no force on your "little finger". Move the "little finger" out ever so slightly and do the same with the "hook"; visualizing in your mind how both the cantilever pin and the "inverted horse-shoe" are moving in their respective arcs that intersect at some point.
You job is to gradually feel and find that point. You will know that you have found the point if by moving the "little finger", the "hook" moves ever so slightly; and vice versa.
Now keep your thumb on all 3 parts and tighten down the retaining screw for the two leaf-springs; making sure that the limiter is NOT rubbing against the "hammer" next to it. When you release your thumb, your "little finger" will spring back to be stopped by the "limiter".
Pushing your "little finger" forward will cause the "hook" to engage the "hammer" -- if you snug down the "accelerator" spring hold-down screw. And wah-la, you have a working trigger assembly again.
The above procedure is assuming that all parts are in good order. In the last year, I have seen one almost new TOZ with the "inverted horse-shoe" broken (due to originally uneven machining work so that the broken leg of the horse-shoe is much thinner than the other). I have also seen another quite new one where the "hook" would absolutely refuse to engage the "hammer" (no matter how much sear engagement had been allowed) until I, with the owner's permission, brutalized their common pivot with a few solid blows of a real make-shift hammer. I have not come across one with a broken cantilever pin; nor one with a sheared pivot for the the 3 parts; nor an enlarged hole(s) in their sheet metal "cage".
HTH and have fun getting acquainted with the trigger assembly.
Paul Ha.
Best Regards,
Susan
Are you talking about the firing pin "Block"? If so, did you disassemble it? There is a coil spring inside. There is a S and W spring that you can use in its place. I will look for the number for you. I am going to copy a set of instructions that another "lister" gave me as they might come in handy in the future.
BTW, I had to purchase 2 parts for my non working TOZ - a total of $80.00. I think I paid $300 for one and $400 for the other. If they work out I will sell the "new" one I bought from Pikington.
Here is the info:
I do not have the TOZ exploded drawing and its parts list handy. So, please bear with me with my terminology of the trigger assembly's parts. The three parts in that assembly are intimately connected together.
Looking from the rear sight towards the muzzle, the "little finger" on your left is the one that stands straight up against the long leaf-spring that you would adjust triggering force with.
The other two, one you correctly named the "hammer" and the third one, the "hook"/(sear) that retains your "hammer".
The 2 small leaf-springs that you asked about, the upper one is the limiter (limiting how far back the "little finger" can come back), and the one below it supplies spring force to the "little finger".
The hammer is powered by the "accelerator" spring which is the last part that you would snug down when you work on the internals of the assembly; and the "hook" is controlled by the "little finger".
I suspect that the reason your "hook" is frailing around is because it is disconnected from the "little finger" (hopefully, see below, that neither part is broken beyond where you can easily see).
The bottom of the "little finger" has a tiny pin that cantilevers out to its right to engage the "inverted horse-shoe' bottom of the "hook".
If, at some time, the "limiter" was out of position, and the "little finger" was allowed to come back beyond where the "limiter" would have stopped it; then its cantilever pin would get out of the "inverted horse-shoe"....and the "hook" is now on its own.
You can easily reset the cantilever pin back into the "inverted horse-shoe" by placing the 2 little springs in their correct positions BUT with their hold-down screw very much loosened so it is practically applying little/no force on your "little finger". Move the "little finger" out ever so slightly and do the same with the "hook"; visualizing in your mind how both the cantilever pin and the "inverted horse-shoe" are moving in their respective arcs that intersect at some point.
You job is to gradually feel and find that point. You will know that you have found the point if by moving the "little finger", the "hook" moves ever so slightly; and vice versa.
Now keep your thumb on all 3 parts and tighten down the retaining screw for the two leaf-springs; making sure that the limiter is NOT rubbing against the "hammer" next to it. When you release your thumb, your "little finger" will spring back to be stopped by the "limiter".
Pushing your "little finger" forward will cause the "hook" to engage the "hammer" -- if you snug down the "accelerator" spring hold-down screw. And wah-la, you have a working trigger assembly again.
The above procedure is assuming that all parts are in good order. In the last year, I have seen one almost new TOZ with the "inverted horse-shoe" broken (due to originally uneven machining work so that the broken leg of the horse-shoe is much thinner than the other). I have also seen another quite new one where the "hook" would absolutely refuse to engage the "hammer" (no matter how much sear engagement had been allowed) until I, with the owner's permission, brutalized their common pivot with a few solid blows of a real make-shift hammer. I have not come across one with a broken cantilever pin; nor one with a sheared pivot for the the 3 parts; nor an enlarged hole(s) in their sheet metal "cage".
HTH and have fun getting acquainted with the trigger assembly.
Paul Ha.
Best Regards,
Susan
Toz Resuscitation
If you don't choose to get into the mechanics of the pistol, take out the Accelerator group, and the Slide or falling block and send them to pilkington. These are gun parts hence parcel post is sufficient for transport. Their charges are more than reasonable and their turnaround time is quick.
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Sekiar
Shadow you showed me the light!
Shadow I want to thank you for your help..even though I didn't understand all that you explained but just enough to remove the big lever and clear the problem......now where can I find left hand grips? Again many thanks, Charles
I'm having Marschal's make me a LH grip - http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=M ... re=toz35-0
Many of the other grip makers support the TOZ 35 as well - e.g. Morini and Rink
These are the pistols that CDNN is selling?
Many of the other grip makers support the TOZ 35 as well - e.g. Morini and Rink
These are the pistols that CDNN is selling?
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Sekiar
CDNN TOZ35M
Thanks, I'm getting ready to order one also. Yes, it came from CDNN...the gun looks to be in excellent condition, however the case was not so good. Charles
I'd spoken to one of their salesmen today. They've apparently sold almost all of them already. He'd estimated that they had two or three left.
From what I'd gathered, they'd belonged to a team or club. He wasn't sure, and didn't know much about free pistols, but did mention that they were very surprised at how quickly they had sold. Hopefully this will encourage CDNN to look for more surplus match pistols.
From what I'd gathered, they'd belonged to a team or club. He wasn't sure, and didn't know much about free pistols, but did mention that they were very surprised at how quickly they had sold. Hopefully this will encourage CDNN to look for more surplus match pistols.
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tozguest
I guess I got lucky. I got three of the $399 versions (good-very good) over the last 2 weeks, and they showed up in the following states:
1) This example looked unfired. No visible tampering with any of the screws (grip, trigger guard, forend screw, sear engagement, and trigger weight). The face of the falling block did not have any wear from were the head of the case rubs. Bore, chamber, crown, all perfect. Sights were aligned, and the set trigger mechanism functioned properly. In my opinion, the only thing that kept the gun from being excellent were a few very shallow scratches on the grip and forend. The blueing was dark and had no blemishes. It came with what I would describe as an unaltered medium grip.
2) Virtually the same as #1, except the falling block lock-up has just a few thousands of an inch play, when the loading lever is locked close. Definately within tolerance, and has no effect on function and accuracy.
Also came with an unaltered medium grip.
3) I would rate this example as very good. It was evident that the grips have been removed. In fact, the number on the shelf did not match the serial number. Additionally, the set trigger group number did not match the gun. It did not effect the function of the gun. There was a rub spot at the end of the barrel, but I think that occured during shipment from CDNN. It is very small and easily touched-up. There is some wear on the bottom of the trigger guard, but again, that is easily remedied. The only negative aspect of this example is that it is missing the small coil spring that keeps the extractor closed. It doesn't render the gun non-functional, it just means that you have to be careful when you load the cartidge. The extractor works fine removing the fired cartridge. There were no misfires, and the firing pin is producing a nice indentation on the case. This example came with large unaltered grips that had moderate wear in the finish, but no deep scratches or dents. This example had been fired and shipped a tad dirty, but cleaned up nicely. The bore, chamber, and crown all in fine shape.
Honestly, I was shocked that they would look so nice (not that it matters how they look), and they all function as intended. I figured that getting the case would not help, because the cases are really pretty horrible, except for storage. The tools they included are not much better. For those that ordered the $499 version with the case, did you get any spare parts (i.e. sights, springs, etc...?) Just curious.
Good luck, and see you on the range,
cricman (signed in as tozguest)
1) This example looked unfired. No visible tampering with any of the screws (grip, trigger guard, forend screw, sear engagement, and trigger weight). The face of the falling block did not have any wear from were the head of the case rubs. Bore, chamber, crown, all perfect. Sights were aligned, and the set trigger mechanism functioned properly. In my opinion, the only thing that kept the gun from being excellent were a few very shallow scratches on the grip and forend. The blueing was dark and had no blemishes. It came with what I would describe as an unaltered medium grip.
2) Virtually the same as #1, except the falling block lock-up has just a few thousands of an inch play, when the loading lever is locked close. Definately within tolerance, and has no effect on function and accuracy.
Also came with an unaltered medium grip.
3) I would rate this example as very good. It was evident that the grips have been removed. In fact, the number on the shelf did not match the serial number. Additionally, the set trigger group number did not match the gun. It did not effect the function of the gun. There was a rub spot at the end of the barrel, but I think that occured during shipment from CDNN. It is very small and easily touched-up. There is some wear on the bottom of the trigger guard, but again, that is easily remedied. The only negative aspect of this example is that it is missing the small coil spring that keeps the extractor closed. It doesn't render the gun non-functional, it just means that you have to be careful when you load the cartidge. The extractor works fine removing the fired cartridge. There were no misfires, and the firing pin is producing a nice indentation on the case. This example came with large unaltered grips that had moderate wear in the finish, but no deep scratches or dents. This example had been fired and shipped a tad dirty, but cleaned up nicely. The bore, chamber, and crown all in fine shape.
Honestly, I was shocked that they would look so nice (not that it matters how they look), and they all function as intended. I figured that getting the case would not help, because the cases are really pretty horrible, except for storage. The tools they included are not much better. For those that ordered the $499 version with the case, did you get any spare parts (i.e. sights, springs, etc...?) Just curious.
Good luck, and see you on the range,
cricman (signed in as tozguest)
CDNN TOZ
I got one of the $399 models and was very impressed.
It pretty much fits TOZGUESTs #1 example.
Took it to the range today and functioning was perfect. Grips were unaltered, though it seems CDNN put it in too small of a box and one of the wings on the grip broke off. I'm okay with that cause my hand wasn't going to agree with that part anyway.
Trying to buy one in this shape from anyone else, would've cost me 800 to 900 bucks.
Christmas came early this year!!
It pretty much fits TOZGUESTs #1 example.
Took it to the range today and functioning was perfect. Grips were unaltered, though it seems CDNN put it in too small of a box and one of the wings on the grip broke off. I'm okay with that cause my hand wasn't going to agree with that part anyway.
Trying to buy one in this shape from anyone else, would've cost me 800 to 900 bucks.
Christmas came early this year!!
No - three brushes, a plastic bottle and a photocopied english manual.For those that ordered the $499 version with the case, did you get any spare parts (i.e. sights, springs, etc...?) Just curious.
I'd purchased two: a 'very good' $499 w/ case, and 'good' $399. The VG pistol has a nice unmodified grip but the condition of the 'good' pistol sans grip is slightly better. Its grip is extensively modified. Both function well.
A friend of mine got a case and pistol that are in excellent condition, but he didn't get spares either.
Last edited by dlb on Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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