TargetTalk

Does anyone know the significance of this rule. Air pistols must conform to certain measurments, must have a trigger weight of 500gms or over and must not weigh more than 1.5kg.
I read on this forum a lot of posts about the preference for a lighter pistol - the mornini short being the first one to mind. Also there is often comment about the IZH 46M being a great pistol but at 1.3kg is often referred to as too heavy.
With the above facts in mind - what's the big deal about the 1.5kg limit then? If (relatively stupid I know) one was to have an air pistol weigh in at 1.8kg - is there an advantage?
Rules (limits) such as trigger weight and width of the pistol etc are obviously made because, otherwise, an advantage may be attained. But, am I missing something in regards to the weight of the pistol?

A heavier pistol is more stable, although the downside is that it would be harder work to hold it for long. Don't know the reason behind the ruling but I imagine it's just that.

Rob.

Thanks Rob, that sort of makes sense. This is obviously not a popular (or particulary important) subject - but it puzzles my enquiring nature. AP manufacturers suppply their pistols with extra weights - which amount to not much more than 40gm - 60gm. Given that they are 'in the know', this must be what shooters require to 'balance' their pistols. If heavier is more stable, and stability is an important part of the shot process, why aren't we adding 200gm or even 400gm to our pistols? Or is it because the subconscious shot release is so paramountly important that (as Steve Swartz and others imply) the ability to hold a very tight area (say 9 or 10 ring) - stable (?) - is not near the top of the shot process priority list?
Apologies if I'm 'going on' about this - but it all stems back to my original thought of - "why is there a 1500gm cap on the weight of the pistol" - if the weight plays no significant part in shooting a World Class score?

I played quite a bit with both the weight and balance adding as much as 150g on the muzzle and the grip. I found out that the weight doesn't matter much, and drastic difference in weight made minimal impact on the performance.

Balance is a tad more influential, and it is different for each shooter and largerly depends on the way you hold the grip. If you prefer tighter grip, more forward balance will serve you better and vice versa.

On the point of muzzle-heavy balance dampening the trigger errors - that is only works up to certain point - at some weight it becomes more tiring and difficult to control and does more harm than good.

There's no magic formula, other than to go with what feels right.



The 1500g limit also never made any sense to me, and I'm guessing that it was grandfathered from somewhere or put there just in case someone figures out how to get extra performance out of extra weight.

Well, here are some theoretical underpinnings:

The gun is always moving.

Do you want it twitching around unpredictably (low weight, unstable)?

Or would you like it gently swaying (heavier, more stable)?

Or would you like it vibrating from muscle fatigue and only get a 2 second look before your arm collapses (too heavy, stability irrelevant)?

It's a tradeoff.

One way to "cheat"" the tradeoff (albeit only slightly) is to have a lighter weight gun, with the center of mass out towards the muzzle- effectively giving you "muzzle stability" without "excessive fatigue." This also "loads up" the wrist (good- to a point) placing stability on the tendons instead of the muscles.

Now I know I didn't put enough "disclaimers" in there for everyone, so here's one last disclaimer: the standard one apparently.

"Whatever works best for you!"

Steve Swartz

p.s. for the purposes of the "subconscious release shot process" the STABILITY (predictability, smoothness) of the wobbole is much more important thant the SIZE of the wobble.

A twitchy 9 ring holder will lose every day to a smooth 7 ring holder . . .

I know I have a 9-ring hold, but I almost never shoot a full AP60 match without a couple 7's. With a lighter pistol, I get a steadier hold, but much more reaction to the movement of my trigger finger. A heavier pistol reduces the number of wild shots, but also increases my hold area. Why this needs to be regulated by rule I don't know. I've never worried about it since the 2 kg limit is well above the optimum weight for almost all athletes. So the rule maintains consistent working parameters within which we can probably all find our "perfect" balance.

twitchy wrote:I know I have a 9-ring hold, but I almost never shoot a full AP60 match without a couple 7's. With a lighter pistol, I get a steadier hold, but much more reaction to the movement of my trigger finger. A heavier pistol reduces the number of wild shots, but also increases my hold area. Why this needs to be regulated by rule I don't know. I've never worried about it since the 2 kg limit is well above the optimum weight for almost all athletes. So the rule maintains consistent working parameters within which we can probably all find our "perfect" balance.

By your own admission the answer to your problem lies in better trigger control. There should be zero reaction to trigger finger movement and it's eradication of that that will give you better scores, the weight issue is acting as a kind of cover up for technical problems <end of coach mode> ;)

Rob.

John - to answer your original question, I believe the 1500gram rule came to us by way of the historical development of air pistol technology. If you look at the IZH46 as being a 1300 gram pistol, that leaves only 200 grams to play with. That may be some grip putty and some counterweight, but it's not a whole lot of either. Likewise for the older generation of "crankers" like the FWB65 - they virtually all weigh at least a couple of hundred grams more than our modern Co2 or PCP airguns, and thus drove the need for a higher maximum weight. I don't know this for certain, but if logic were to prevail then this would indeed be a logical explanation of the 1500gram limit.

Thanks all. Some logical and some thought provoking answers. I guess a lot of these regulations are scores of years old and as tecnology has improved (such as the progresion from the IZH to lighter CA pistols) some of them don't make as much sense as when they were first released.

yes, i also believed that the 1500grm limit doesn't make much sense either.
besides, what can you add onto your pistol to make 1500grm? full metal build? imagine lp10 alu, with aluminum grip. hmm, still doesn't amount to 1.5kg.

and 1.5kg is seriously too heavy for serious competition work