TargetTalk

Hey everyone i've got a question to ask..here goes..

I've been using Morini CM162EI for around 5 months and my highest score was like 522,then 1 month before a competition it malfunctioned,and i had no choice and switched to Walther LP300XT,but i found out that i shot better after i changed and my score kept going up,to the point it reached 546...but now my morini is fixed and i wonder if i should switched back to it..

Because the Walther LP300XT grip doesn't feels as good as Morini's and its heavier..but im doing well with it..so i need help on this..should i switch back or continue using walther?

And another problem is that whenever i fire a shot,my gun always jerk,maybe its because i apply too much force on the gun,if so,how much force should i apply on the gun?or is there another reason for my problem?advice needed,thanks!

Did you immediately shoot better with the 300Xt or did your scores progress to the 546 mark?

Grip comfort is one thing another is repeatability of your actual grip, the 300 may be allowing you to get a more consistant grip. The trigger settings ie stage weigths, stage travel and stop maybe be better for you with the 300 XT. I suggest you put in sometime shooting both pistols back to back and see if you can find the differences. Sometimes it just takes a change (any change) to get people over a plateau maybe that was your issue. When you plateau with the 300XT try the Morini. Lots of times a new or different pistol makes one think more about fundementals. I tried one of my shooting friend's Morini and shot a string of 97 and 98, the grip didn't fit me and his rear sight was dramatically larger than mine. I took some of what I learned by shoot his pistol (open my rear sight a little) and applied them to mine and it made a nice improvement that has lasted.

I also suggest you try the morini again and see where your at? Like the advice that is always given here some pistols suit some people better than others.

I wouldn't really struggle over the decision as both pistols are nice, and it gives you a good back up pistol (I'd practice with the back up ocassionally).

I heard the story years ago that everytime a tennis player buys a new racket, the better they play for a short time. the more expensive the racket, the more the improvement, but always temporary.

For sure, some people just find agun that really suits them. And I have freinds that swear that as they chance the setup of whatever gun they are working with they shoot better fr some period of time.

In the final analysis, it is your technique.

One things that concerns me is this statement:

And another problem is that whenever i fire a shot,my gun always jerk,maybe its because i apply too much force on the gun,if so,how much force should i apply on the gun?or is there another reason for my problem?advice needed,thanks!

An air pistol should not move at all when you fire the shoot! There is no recoil. You must learn to move your trigger finger without changing the other muscules in your wrist, forehand etc. There arealso many discussions in this list concerning the unconcouis trigger squeeze and letting the pistol settle in a hold area rather than trying to shoot when things are looking good.

Either pistol can be jerked or fired smoothly.

I had a similar experience, years ago, when I switched from a S&W Model 41 to a High Standard Victor with a sloped grip. So I am a strong believer in gun "fit", i.e. one gun may be ergonomically better suited than another. Technique is still very important, but at least you avoid compensating for bad ergonomics. Keep riding the winning horse.

I had a similar experience, years ago, when I switched from a S&W Model 41 to a High Standard Victor with a sloped grip. So I am a strong believer in gun "fit", i.e. one gun may be ergonomically better suited than another. Technique is still very important, but at least you avoid compensating for bad ergonomics. Keep riding the winning horse.

Dance with The one that got you there. Often there doesn't seem to be any reason why scores are higher with one pistol compared to another. Maybe later on you may find out but for now shoot the one thats treating you best . I shot a smith 52 in duel and a colt 38 wad gun in the old center fire course because thats where I got the most points. I never learned to shoot precision with that 52. Good Shooting Bill Horton

templars wrote:Hey everyone i've got a question to ask..here goes..

I've been using Morini CM162EI for around 5 months and my highest score was like 522,then 1 month before a competition it malfunctioned,and i had no choice and switched to Walther LP300XT,but i found out that i shot better after i changed and my score kept going up,to the point it reached 546...but now my morini is fixed and i wonder if i should switched back to it..

Because the Walther LP300XT grip doesn't feels as good as Morini's and its heavier..but im doing well with it..so i need help on this..should i switch back or continue using walther?

And another problem is that whenever i fire a shot,my gun always jerk,maybe its because i apply too much force on the gun,if so,how much force should i apply on the gun?or is there another reason for my problem?advice needed,thanks!

A score of 522 indicates that you are not capable of holding any gun smoothly enoughly to acquire a decent hold. Honestly, you might try holding a 3 pound weight out at arm's length to condition the slow twitch muscle fibers. And do some walking and dynamic conditioning to increase your cardiac output (your stroke volume will increase but the real benefit comes from a decrease in heart rate). Your hold will never get any better without this primary conditioning. Nor will your score/hold get any better by shooting different guns.

The success of a great hold lies in proper conditioning - great scores are out of reach of most wanna-bes because they do not want to (or have the committment) to condition properly.

Apparently a "contrarian" view . . .

. . . you would benefit greatly from improving your trigger control and focusing on front sight (physically) and maintaining perfect sight alignment (mentally).

Try dry fire and live fire against blank target cards until you can smoothly release the shot with perfected alignment.

Believe it or not- you can shoot in the high 570s with an 8 ring hold.

Steve Swartz

Steve Swartz wrote:Apparently a "contrarian" view . . .

. . . you would benefit greatly from improving your trigger control and focusing on front sight (physically) and maintaining perfect sight alignment (mentally).

Try dry fire and live fire against blank target cards until you can smoothly release the shot with perfected alignment.

Believe it or not- you can shoot in the high 570s with an 8 ring hold.

Steve Swartz

Templar is not anywhere near holding the black consistently! Do you think that his 'high' score of 522 is indicative of an 8 ring hold? My gosh man, think about the physics before you clutter the gentleman with the 'sight alignment' whirlwind tour!

One MUST be able to maintain an accurate hold before applying the sight alignment principles. Without the hold there is no chance of succeeding! This principle is what is missing with most of the pistol shooters in the USA. Drilling and repeating 'holding' exercises will reward the competitor with high! scores much sooner than fighting the sights against a gun that is waving all over the target face.

Templar, do not get caught up in the sight alignment goose chase. Train your arm and your body to become one system whereby you are holding accurately in a very small area for starters. And this is to be done with weights - not with the gun! Forget the sights for now - that is the last ingredient that you will add to the soup. You need to understand your body's requirements thoroughly in order to obtain and maintain the very small area of hold. You will be rewarding yourself sooner than you imagined.

Anonymous wrote:One MUST be able to maintain an accurate hold before applying the sight alignment principles.

Why? Sight alignment is merely having the 2 sights lined up with each other, not necessarily with the target.

It is perfectly possible to have a near-perfect sight alignment but a lousy hold.

. . . to resolve this dispute I would humbly suggest reading what has been published by the top coaches and shooters . . .

Steve Swartz

(A tiny, subtle error in trigger control or sight alignment will result in huge errors on the target- while a [seemingly] large error in aim/hold is actually quite trivial. This is counterintuitive, and very hard to accept, let alone understand. Perhaps, it represents the fundamental difference between those who can shoot to their physical potential and those who never will. The USMC training process for NRA "bullseye" style shooting- which they dominate- is instructive in this regard.)

Perhaps, it represents the fundamental difference between those who can shoot to their physical potential and those who never will.

And what you have just said is why those who think they will succeed by merely working on sight alignment will succumb to failure!

Anonymous wrote:And what you have just said is why those who think they will succeed by merely working on sight alignment will succumb to failure!

Who has suggested that "merely" working on sight alignment will bring success.

Mr. Anonymous Guest:

Care to contribute anything substantive, beyond ad hominem attack?

The assembled multitudes are awaiting enlightenment.

Perhaps you can start by addressing *my* substantive contribution, since you apparently disagree with it?


"A tiny, subtle error in trigger control or sight alignment will result in huge errors on the target- while a [seemingly] large error in aim/hold is actually quite trivial. This is counterintuitive, and very hard to accept, let alone understand. Perhaps, it represents the fundamental difference between those who can shoot to their physical potential and those who never will. The USMC training process for NRA "bullseye" style shooting- which they dominate- is instructive in this regard."

P.S. "Nanny-Nanny Boo Boo" does *not* constitute a "substantive contribution." Just thought you would like to know.

And your parents would like their computer back.

Steve Swartz

To me a steady hand and good sight alignment are nearly the same. And to be worked on togetther.

Rig up a small pan full of water with a pistol like grip. Make it about pistol weight and hold it out without spilling a drop. Your attention will have to be on the watrer (sight), which is a very good thing to learn.

One MUST be able to maintain an accurate hold before applying the sight alignment principles. Without the hold there is no chance of succeeding! This principle is what is missing with most of the pistol shooters in the USA.

The explanation I have always heard was based on math: Most of have say a 16" sleeve length and the front sight is out another 9". I make the assumption that the "Hold" is to a great extent at the shoulder joint plus some body sway etc. But that movement is still well over 24". But slight misalignment of the sights is magnified on the target by the fact that the sight are only 9" apart at best. Basic geometry.

Anonymous wrote:Templar is not anywhere near holding the black consistently! Do you think that his 'high' score of 522 is indicative of an 8 ring hold? My gosh man, think about the physics before you clutter the gentleman with the 'sight alignment' whirlwind tour!

Physics or no, mathematics says that shooting randomly within the 8 will deliver 509, so 522 is better than black.

Indeed!

So if we see shooters with 8 ring holds shooting 570s (and we do), then perhaps there is something going on that is not explained by "shooting randomly" . . .

Steve Swartz

(and of course this begs the whole question of exactly how we define "X ring hold" - when our holds are not uniformly distributed within the OD of "X ring" which [again of course] they are not)

Hi templar, welcome to TT (toddler training)

bit hard to tell you what to do on the info you provided, but if you have been at it for 5 months you are going very well.
there may be something wrong with your first gun, have you tested it?
though there is not that great a deal difference in the results at that level for someone starting out.

I would lean to new gun syndrome as suggested. time will tell. that is you are thinking about anything but results, so results start coming.
If this is the case, and you continue to work on technique, not results, and your first pistol is fine, it really wont matter which you use.
setting up the pistol for you is important to a point.
just to confuse, self beleif is worth more than the pistol, that is if you think one is better, it most definately is.

I have been told to hold a compressed air pistol like you are shaking a ladies hand, spring guns and larger calibers, look for the sap running out of the wood, then back off a bit. lol

enjoy your shooting

bryan

Thru training and practice learn to hold the pistol as still as possible in your aiming area on the target. As you settle the gun and relax into stillness began a steadilly increasing pressure on the trigger that will cause the pistol to fire without disturbance to the basic stillness or in the perfection of the relationship of the front sight to the rear.[ by far the most important]Now comes the really important stuff. Focus your eye on the front sight and concentrate your total mental activity on perfecting sight allignment until the hammer/striker falls, firing the pistol . Perfect Follow through can only occur when you acheive a suprise shot. Mr Guest , you will note that I do not agree with you in entirety, But then I dont agree with any one else all the time either. Good Shooting Bill Horton