TargetTalk

i recently have had a screwedup comp. the 20 sighters i shot were ok.

however, once i switch to score cards, i have trouble breaking the 1st shot. bouts and bouts of chicken finger. my hold becomes extremely unsteady.

after 5 shots. i have this feeling of "oh, this competition is so screwed, that i wish i wasn't here."

subsequently, i made so many screwups which are kinda impossible during my normal training. i shot a personal low for this comp. 515. my usual standard is around the mid 540s to mid 550s.

this has never happen to me before, at least in competitions.

what should i do the next time my emotions go "wild" again?

always a difficult situation. pretty normal, happens to us all at times.

sure there will be lots ideas, but I think the biggest issue is trying to shoot a 10. having a result oriented goal is always going to put extra pressure on you. you shoot your sighters and start getting scared as you are not sure about shooting such a high result. not comfortable!

newish to pistol I did a similar thing last away comp, I should of known better, so was more pissed about that. my sighters were well higher than my previous best anytime, so I decided I didnt need to follow my comp plan. wrong!!! still learning I decided to just go with it and see what happens, was a low 520, not 550+. I should of taken a break, started again. bit like aborting the shot, need to know when to stop.

I am finding 550+ a difficult place, it seems to be on the boarder of a big jump in results, I only have to tidy up a few shots to be 560+ a bit more discipline. So rather impatient, I know I need to practice more.

If you find you are uncomfortable to enter another comp, you have injured yourself.

emotions can go wild at any time, it is important to stay in control, that is of sound mind. when our emotions go wild we can get confused, and make mistakes. having a shot/comp plan is the first step in getting back control.
practice more competitions

imho
bryan

I do have a mental process I use any time I find that I am having to deal with an emotional issue. But the best informatiom I have found to address this problem was contained in a piece ED Hall posted to this forum. I regret being unable to remember exactly what thread it was located in. You might query Ed to help you locate it. Think positively through out your shooting plan and remember you shoot many more tens than any thing else. Good shooting Bill Horton

bryan wrote:always a difficult situation. pretty normal, happens to us all at times.

sure there will be lots ideas, but I think the biggest issue is trying to shoot a 10. having a result oriented goal is always going to put extra pressure on you. you shoot your sighters and start getting scared as you are not sure about shooting such a high result. not comfortable!

The problem is being score orientated when you should be shot (process) orientated. You shoot a 10 by shooting good technical shots not by wanting to shoot 10's. The answer is to concentrate on getting the technique right and when you do that the score will look after itself.

The only pressure put on you is by yourself. Learn to relax and just do each shot well and you will be able to remain calm. Or at least you shouldn't go into panic breakdown mode. If you do get stressed then take a break walk away, and recompose. That said if you haven't trained de-stressing techniques you're asking for trouble expecting to roll them out afresh in a match. You need to train everything that you are going to call on, or even may call on, in a match.

Rob.

We have discussed how important a positive attitude and approach is to shooting performance. I 'd like to change the words just a bit. What about confidense in the skills you have developed through training and practice? Doesen't confidence also promote good performances? And there is another word that should be remembered Lets call it faith, faith that your next shot is going to be a good shot. Faith that you know what you are going to do to shoot that shot and that your effort will be rewarded. I don't believe these things can be dismissed as legends or folk lore. They serve as protection against the very problems brought up in this thread. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Rob Stubbs wrote

You shoot a 10 by shooting good technical shots not by wanting to shoot 10's.

Is there some way of having shooter's brains upgraded to include this?

Spencer

You shoot a 10 by shooting good technical shots not by wanting to shoot 10's.

Absolutely, reward yourself for the good application of the of the process and not the result of that process.

ie: if you shot a ten reward yourself for the porcess that allowed you to shoot that ten, DO NOT reward yourself for the ten.

If you can do this in competition it will take alot of the pressure off. It is hard to do as I am sure everyone here can relate too. My best competition scores have been when I have totally dedicated to focusing on the front sight and not worried about where the resulting hole on the target is.

Good luck (or maybe it should be good training makes good luick)

Mikey

None of the three thungs I mentioned in my above post will ever occur without dedicated training in developing a solid hold, a good consistant trigger manipulation technique,and eye focus supported by uninterupted mental concentration on perfecting sight allignment. Once you find it practice it until you have developed a consistant method of firing the shot.Remember what was said on the post just above this one. The harder and smarter you practice the luckier you will get. Good SHooting Bill Horton

we all want to shoot 10's, just we need to have a good plan to acheive this. so often we get so focused on the result, we forget how to actually do it.

spencer, I have lots comments about your request, that probably are not in my best interest to comment as even with my poor engrish, it is unlikely I could ever be seen as a coach here.
the shooters are not the problem!!!!!


bryan

bryan wrote:we all want to shoot 10's, just we need to have a good plan to acheive this. so often we get so focused on the result, we forget how to actually do it.

bryan

Bryan,
See my post above. It really is straightforward - stop thinking about the outcome (result). Now I'm not saying the solution is a simple one to acheive but if you let your mind wander onto the score then you will suffer as will your scores. Learn and practice removing those distractions from your thought processes and you will shoot better. As to how you acheive that, that's for you to work out what works best for you and then train it.

Rob.

Hi rob, I should eleborate on shot/comp plan, this does not include results!
but it is for better results you need it.
at no time did I suggest to think about a ten/results/outcome/place/etc, during the comp. though I did make the statement thinking about tens adds unwanted pressure.

all I can think is I have not put what I meant the right way?
So, I am still saying we all want to shoot tens, I hope!

regards

bryan

ie: if you shot a ten reward yourself for the porcess that allowed you to shoot that ten, DO NOT reward yourself for the ten.

Haha and how do you propose you do that? You see a good hole and the little man in the back of your head gets a feel-good and demands another 10, how do you explain it to that man "I get a feel-good because of the good execution, not because of the score". How do you make that distinction to the part of your brain that is emotional and does not speak English?


On an unrelated note, if you shoot a crap score, say a 520 (or a 0 if you have to forefit), on a sactioned match, and on the next three you shoot 599 (hypothetically). Does that mean that despite that your average, and hence your ranking is screwed forever even if you became a best shooter in the world?

donthc wrote:i recently have had a screwedup comp. the 20 sighters i shot were ok.

however, once i switch to score cards, i have trouble breaking the 1st shot. bouts and bouts of chicken finger. my hold becomes extremely unsteady.

after 5 shots. i have this feeling of "oh, this competition is so screwed, that i wish i wasn't here."

subsequently, i made so many screwups which are kinda impossible during my normal training. i shot a personal low for this comp. 515. my usual standard is around the mid 540s to mid 550s.

this has never happen to me before, at least in competitions.

what should i do the next time my emotions go "wild" again?

The thread has sort of gone on a tangent.

My first question is why 20 sighters? A national team member once said to me "Sighters are for sighting its not time to train". Do you shoot 20 sighters when doing match simulation in practice? If not don't do it at a match.

Shooting 20 sighters (33.3% of a match) takes a lot of time, so without any more info I'll suggest that you're not taking enough time to shoot your match shots, you're probably not aborting bad shots, these are just assumptions, but they are things you might want to look at (its like saying that you can shoot 80 match quality shots in 105 minutes, which you might be hard pressed to do, its 1.3 minutes a shot).

I wouldn't just say that your emotions went wild, I think you might want to look at your whole match routine because it looks like the whole thing may not support your efforts. They sort of feed off one another the match routine fails you start to feel pressure, you feel pressure your routine gets worse, you shoot worse and your emotions start to flare, your emotions take hold and you shoot even worse, its a big snowball.

A good match routine is one that is sustainable and allows you to produce results in a match ( not a routine that produces results in practice).

Another thing, as things started going south I bet you thought about trying harder too. Thats always the really death blow for me. The worse thing I bet if you really think about it that poor performance was the physically and mentally most demanding you've shot (it's hard to shoot bad it takes a lot out of you), where as you'll find your best scores seem to come when there seems to be little to no effort.

[quote="2650 Plus"]None of the three things I mentioned in my above post will ever occur without dedicated training in developing a solid hold, a good consistent trigger manipulation technique,and eye focus supported by uninterupted mental concentration on perfecting sight alignment. Once you find it practice it until you have developed a consistent method of firing the shot.Remember what was said on the post just above this one. The harder and smarter you practice the luckier you will get. Good Shooting Bill Horton[/quote]

Sight alignment and trigger control. Like Mr 2650+, I have some thoughts on that.

Sight alignment and trigger control. That's what they all say are the most basic of fundamentals. I asked a long time ago how do we do them. I mean we know what they are and we know when we see them, but how do you do them. And after all these years, I still don't have the answer.

There may not be one answer for everyone. However, I have gained some beliefs. I believe that sight alignment and trigger control are the result of, or to be more exact, a goal of, doing properly a number of foundational things. They are eye on sight, good solid controlling grip, sound position, clear and focused mind, and more. All these support the traditional fundamentals, and if all these are learned and done together properly, sight alignment and trigger control will be achieved. Of course there is more to the foundation list, especially on the trigger pull subject.

I bet many of us try to find 10s and Xs as our results before we really know how to make sight alignment and trigger control as our result.

An additional thought-We often try to force the shot to center without having the tools to align the sights and work the trigger in the first place. Then when the problem 7s and 8s hit the paper, we do not have a solution.

"this has never happen to me before, at least in competitions. "


Forget about it, move along and enjoy your next competition. Or else you can go to the next competition thinking about your last score that sucked and that you must never ever do something like that again. This time you have to do better etc etc... well. Don't do that to yourself.
Just move on and look forward.

The question of what to do next time your emotions "go wild" depends on why your emotions "went wild" this time.

I this match came after or during a period of poor health, physical or mental, you may not have the problem again, if you regain good health.

If, on the other hand, this match was approached "differently" than past matches (eg trying to "win"; trying to "beat"some other shooter; trying to make a certain score to obtain team membership) you need to figure out "WHAT WAS DIFFERENT", then work on a mental training plan to get the "thought" of it being different under control.

Mentally each match should be shot the same as the last one, and the same as practice matches (not training). Usually you will find that you have put some kind of pressure on yourself to obtain a different outcome from prior matches. Having higher goals from previous matches is OK, but you have to be sure not to focus on the outcomming during the competition (as others have said - focus on the performance needed to obtain the outcome).

The hardest thing you have to do now is to be honest with yourself in finding what your fears were, because it was the fear that stopped your performance.

Good luck with your shooting.

thanks for everyone's replies to this post. all of the points covered have been experienced by me during that competition. Yes, it is good for others to point out mistakes, that i can't detect by myself.

As for Richard H, i shot 20 sighters cos i had not trained for the past few days before the event, due to shortage of lanes(my gun is placed in a club), therefore the need to start with the 20 sighters.

usually for training, i shoot 80 shots, with match stimulation. and i usually finish all the 80 shots before 60mins. however, it was only during this competition that i spent 75 mins on 20 match shots (chicken fingers the reason).

as for confidence. i was feeling very very confident before the match, up to the point of starting match scoring. then, everything went south, along with my confidence.

think one of the reason for the screwup is this "ultra-high confidence", which caused me to increase my expectations and in turn lead to the screwup.

and thanks for the tips. i had never followed a competition plan before. u know, it is really hard to stick to the plan when you r feeling low or high from shootings 10s or 7s. instead, in my trainings, i do reflections over the flaws of the last competition, and incorporate the solutions into my training. so, in a sense, the solutions become part of the techniques.

guess there are many fatal flaws in my comp preparations... and thanks for your inputs. it is greatly appreciated

One very quick observation is that you may well find it best to rest prior to a competition. I normally leave between 3 and 5 days between training and competing depending on the importance of the competition - one could argue I should always do the same, but I deliberately choose not to.

Rob.

There is no way I can do as good a job on this as Ed Hall But since he has not posted , I'll do the best I can. First when we analize the problem I suspect the problem is caused by fear of not performing up to our own expectations. The emotions are exerbated because we are uncomfortable with our situation. That can usually be relieved by leaving the area and moving to a non stressful place. This is a mental departure not a physical one. Find in your own mind a safe and enjoyable place and remain there until you feel relaxation flowing through your body and mind A good breathing technique seems to speed the relaxation. Experiment until you find the mental place.I am trying to describe. Your body was trained by a long string of prehistoric ancesters to behave in a certain way when faced with a stressful situation. The stress causes your body to begin secreting adrenalin as it prepares to fight or flee and its unable to tell the difference between a threat by a saber tooth tiger and the fear of failure. Occasionally another reaction occurs, where the match does not cause any reaction and , without the stimulation you cannot force yourself to expend the necessary physical and mental energy to shoot well. This is the time to figuratively place your boot in the most appropraite place , Wake up and get to work. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Fight or flee... or something in between. The response to pressure can IMHO be the driving force to a new national or world record , or to a shooting disaster. How can we use the bodies response to a threat to support our efforts. I can only address how it worked for me and hope I will be able to describe the process well enough so that it is understandable. Any time my emotions moved toward the feer side of the equasion I faced disaster if I didn't take positive action to correct my emotions. [see the above post ] This was done by thiinking positive thoughts about a safe and pleasant place along with controled breathing exercises until I regained control. What about anger? This seemed to be less damageing to my performance but speeded up the thought process and made my mind harder to control. Again the corrective provess required moving away from whatever was causing the anger reaction. The movement was not physical, and I just used the same approach as I did to releave fear. The problem with no or minimual reaction also caused me to lose matches that I should have won. I found that the most productive emotional state for me was leaning toward the anger side just enough to stimulate my competitive urges and sustaining that for as much of the match as I could. Good Shooting Bill Horton