TargetTalk

Practice seems to be a dirty word on this forum amd training the proper buzz word,. I'd like to put in my two cents worth. I contend that both have a distinct place in the shooters prepartion for competition. First the shooter should try to identify specific training needs. Plan remedial training programs that give him/her the biggest bang for the busk, Test the training to make sure the results you want can be obtained by using the method you selected. Train until the level of profeciency is reached. Now PRACTICE the new skill to stablize your performance,then go to a match and confirm that it really works in the pressure cooker of real competition. Good Shooting Bill Horton

The problem with that is that true competitors are rarely totally happy with every element of their technique so are always training to improve it.

Couldnt aggree more except I believe the shooter should stabilize his shooting sequence prior to the match he wants to win some days before match day by practicing the physical and mental procedures he uses to fire his best shots. It worked for me for a lot of matches and I believe it will work for anyone who uses training first then practice before the match. Should he loose in the match, conduct the whole cycle over again. Good Shooting Bill Horton

I think the term "training", is in keeping with the fact that shooter's are, like all other world cup and olympic competitors, athletes. As in all other sports, all non-competetive efforts, are training, not practice. Pianists, and violinists "practice" (as do lawyers and doctors, I suppose), while athletes "train". You wouldn't say that a boxer, when in the sparring ring, or a pole vaulter working to gain another centimeter, is practicing, would you?

Paul

I put this thought on the forum because I had only seen practice mentioned in negative terms. And ,Just as the concert pianist practices before a concert I subscribe to the idea that [as was mentioned]practice just before the competition is highly beneficial in producing the best performance. If you as I do use a specific mental process paralelling the physicle acts I believe you will come to the same conclusion I did. Somewhere along the line it helps to stop training and practice exactly how you are going to shoot the competition. The final test is to shoot the match and evaluate the results of your training. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Training makes you better.

Practice makes you more consistent at your current level.

Practice or train depending on your needs.

Steve Swartz

Another perspective, could training be a process involving a 2nd party whereas practice is a solo process?

ausdiver99 wrote:Another perspective, could training be a process involving a 2nd party whereas practice is a solo process?

Not really. There's no reason why you can't train alone, and in many respects I'd suggest that's when you get the most out of it because you can be 100% focused with no distractions.

Rob.

both terms are used loosly

to me, at higher levels of competition, it is all training till you put the pellet/bullet in.
then it is practice, that is practicing comps.

if you are training with pellets you are training to train, not practicing comps.

bryan

bryan wrote:to me, at higher levels of competition, it is all training till you put the pellet/bullet in.
then it is practice, that is practicing comps.

if you are training with pellets you are training to train, not practicing comps.

So how do you train for Standard Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol.

i've always seen it as

Practising is shooting for the sake of shooting

Training is shooting in order to achieve something!

David Levene wrote:

bryan wrote:to me, at higher levels of competition, it is all training till you put the pellet/bullet in.
then it is practice, that is practicing comps.

if you are training with pellets you are training to train, not practicing comps.

So how do you train for Standard Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol.

training is not easy, but not confined to the event itself.
and find a free supply of ammo to practice with.

bryan

Not sure where this fits here, but in training:
You have to train yourself what to do, and
you have then to train yourself to actually do it.

Like today despite a personal best in a 2700, there was a definite portion of the match where my concentration went south. Training of the first kind above didn't fail me, but the second kind did. Luckily I kicked myself in the arse and brought the target scores back up in the final stages.

bryan wrote:

David Levene wrote:

bryan wrote:to me, at higher levels of competition, it is all training till you put the pellet/bullet in.
then it is practice, that is practicing comps.

if you are training with pellets you are training to train, not practicing comps.

So how do you train for Standard Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol.

training is not easy, but not confined to the event itself.
and find a free supply of ammo to practice with.

No it isn't confined to the event itself, but it must include the event. How, for example, can you train yourself to move from one target to the next under recoil if you do not have the recoil.

On those rare days when I could approach or exceed national records I would often observe the recoil knock the front sight out of the rear sight notch, then see it reapear almost instantly back in near perfect allignment. I tried to cause that to occur in competition and it did more and more often.. I found it in training and increased the frequency of it reoccuring during competition by practice just prior to a match. I dont insist on practice , I am reporting that it works for me. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Hi david, as you are aware, I am new to this pistol stuff, so I will try to explain for an event I am not profficient in.

So the first issue is at higher levels, not beginners, when you put pellet etc in it is to produce a result. most other things you work on you shouldnt have a pellet in. or use a blank/centre removed target to feel recoil.

if you are working on stance/trigger/etc, but still shoot, then look at results, at what point did you stop working on stance/etc, and start trying to shoot a result? so you then stopped thinking about the technique, and didnt prepare to shoot a result. what is the point of that? what does the result relate to? poor preparation+poor technique=???

as soon as you are shooting at the target for any reason other than results, you are training to train.
every shot you shoot should be recorded, no cheating! this is important in learning to shoot results.

std pistol is shooting multiple single shots, training for this would include your AP practice. but you prepare for 5 shots in the 10/20 sec series, rather than a single shot.

RF is something most start after they are very profficient in static shooting, this then can create its own problems.
again, every shot you shoot should be recorded. timing feedback devices help keep track of your timing during practice, which also can berecorded.

due to RF own requirements, training may include live fire with centre cut out, 9-10 ring. if you need the 8 cut out maybe you are not ready?
maybe 8 as well?
live fire the first shot and record time/result.

but I am sure you would have many other training ideas.


imho

bryan

bryan wrote:as soon as you are shooting at the target for any reason other than results, you are training to train.
every shot you shoot should be recorded, no cheating! this is important in learning to shoot results.

std pistol is shooting multiple single shots, training for this would include your AP practice. but you prepare for 5 shots in the 10/20 sec series, rather than a single shot.

In most cases it is quite possible to train with live fire but be concerned with the process rather than the score. It is impossible to train for Standard Pistol without live firing. I'm afraid that if you think that Standard Pistol is just firing 5 single shots then you just don't understand the event.

Hi david,
you are probably right re std.
should I not shoot 5 individual shots?

bryan

bryan wrote:you are probably right re std.
should I not shoot 5 individual shots?

IMHO it is still 5 individual shots (although I know others will disagree) but it is not just 5 slow-fire shots fired quickly.

You have the added complications of recoil control, sight re-alignment, trigger timing, general time constraints etc.