Some of my thoughts.....
So what does it take to be successful in Olympic Pistol discipline, to complement the athlete’s own commitment and motivation?
I have singled out sources of support that all Olympic Style Pistol Shooting athletes will need to become successful at a high level:
1) An appropriate place to train. Preferably a well-equipped shooting range at a local gun/pistol club.
2) Qualified coaching support.
3) Being part of a motivated team, members of which will mentor, challenge, and encourage each other to reach greater heights individually and as a group.
4) Financial support. Ammunition, equipment, and various miscellaneous expenses will need to be financed through donations, local clubs, friends and family, or personal savings to continue training and performing on a high level.
5) Family support is also essential. It is important to have your family members support and encourage your athletic progress, motivating you to achieve the competitive goals you set for yourself on your journey to success.
Complete thoghts located here:
http://www.midwestshootingacademy.com/c ... 1180543757
Russ
What does it take to be successful in Olympic Pistol?
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Another way to look at it is by actual discipline as well, Air Pistol, Free pistol and Rapid Fire require different recources.
-Your last one is one I'd probably move to the top (if you're married), the spouse has to give up a lot. If they make you feel guilty about doing what you have to, it wont work and both will suffer until one is gone.
-Other things to look at are physical training (needs and facilities and cost), massage, chiroparactor, accupuncture ect. (because you will most like experience some physical issues over the for year period).
-Travel needs and considerations.
-Employment support ie giving you the time off to compete, flexible hours to help you train ect.
I was privy to another international shooters conversation regarding this and basically he approached it like a business plan. Identifiy all the needs not just the few simple ones that come to mind, identify the obstacles, then look at what you have available to you to meet those needs and assemble a team to support your efforts.
Read your post over on the other forum (move it over here it some good food for thought).
I disagree a little about your comments regarding physcological issues and shooting 570 though. Even those shooting 540's and 550 sometimes have focus issues. I myself have gone into slumps only to realize that I was probably committing the biggest problem in my opinion "trying too hard to shoot well"and "trying to aim and break the shot rather than accept my hold and shoot". I've seen other athletes struggle with this too. I agree way to much is put into the subconcious shooting mojo, the Russians seem to think its BS too, basically they say you have to be able to make the shot on command when its required (conciously).
As for choaching, in North America shooting coaches are basically expected to perform the service free of charge and actually out of their own pocket. Not a lot of sports that I know off expect free coaching.
Plus remember your competing against people whos full time job is shooting with al the support that comes along with it.
-Your last one is one I'd probably move to the top (if you're married), the spouse has to give up a lot. If they make you feel guilty about doing what you have to, it wont work and both will suffer until one is gone.
-Other things to look at are physical training (needs and facilities and cost), massage, chiroparactor, accupuncture ect. (because you will most like experience some physical issues over the for year period).
-Travel needs and considerations.
-Employment support ie giving you the time off to compete, flexible hours to help you train ect.
I was privy to another international shooters conversation regarding this and basically he approached it like a business plan. Identifiy all the needs not just the few simple ones that come to mind, identify the obstacles, then look at what you have available to you to meet those needs and assemble a team to support your efforts.
Read your post over on the other forum (move it over here it some good food for thought).
I disagree a little about your comments regarding physcological issues and shooting 570 though. Even those shooting 540's and 550 sometimes have focus issues. I myself have gone into slumps only to realize that I was probably committing the biggest problem in my opinion "trying too hard to shoot well"and "trying to aim and break the shot rather than accept my hold and shoot". I've seen other athletes struggle with this too. I agree way to much is put into the subconcious shooting mojo, the Russians seem to think its BS too, basically they say you have to be able to make the shot on command when its required (conciously).
As for choaching, in North America shooting coaches are basically expected to perform the service free of charge and actually out of their own pocket. Not a lot of sports that I know off expect free coaching.
Plus remember your competing against people whos full time job is shooting with al the support that comes along with it.
Last edited by Richard H on Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It takes WHAT!!!
"So what does it take to be successful in Olympic Pistol discipline"
In the real world, just to make it to the games it has taken :-
"1) An appropriate place to train. Preferably a well-equipped shooting range at a local gun/pistol club. "
- A local range is an absolute must. Join the club, go and train 3-4 times midweek for 3-4 hours a time. Find time to compete in club, as well as local and interstate matchs on the weekends. Throw in some away competitions including international events every couple of months.
You will probably need keys and input into the club so you will end up on the committee doing a lot of club work as well.
"2) Qualified coaching support"
- There are a number of coach's that can work with new shooters and keep them safe. There are a few coach's that can bring an average shooter up towards a master shooter. If you are lucky you might find a coach that can bring a master shooter into International level, but he is probabily 800 miles away and you see him once a blue moon.
You end up doing your own coaching course, get involved coaching the lower levels and learning at the same time. You become your own coach. You bounce ideas of as many other coach's as possible, stir it all around and come up with an answer. You research as many sources as possible and end up with a library of books, notes and videos.
"3) Being part of a motivated team, members of which will mentor, challenge, and encourage each other to reach greater heights individually and as a group. "
- No, 99% of the time others at your level are competitors, you only come together every 4 years to be a team for two weeks in an individual event.
Yes, you are friends but still rivals. Most of the time you are on your own, training on your own with your own motivation.
If you are lucky you have a good shooting partner or mate (wife) to share your ups and downs.
"4) Financial support. Ammunition, equipment, and various miscellaneous expenses will need to be financed through donations, local clubs, friends and family, or personal savings to continue training and performing on a high level. "
- To feed the habit, you have to work. I hope it is a well paid job with a good boss (hopefully only doing 3-4 hours a day). You need lots of time off, so be prepared to use all your holidays on shooting. When they are all gone, you take time off work (without pay) to do the rest of the competitions. Otherwise win a lottery or be a millionaire.
"5) Family support is also essential. It is important to have your family members support and encourage your athletic progress, motivating you to achieve the competitive goals you set for yourself on your journey to success."
- Most important, get your wife or girlfriend (or both if you are so lucky) involved in the sport. You are spending so much time at this game, if they are not involved you are in deep trouble with your family life.
Somehow after all this you might make it to the games. it worked for Sydney and Athens, it might work next year.
See you in China.
In the real world, just to make it to the games it has taken :-
"1) An appropriate place to train. Preferably a well-equipped shooting range at a local gun/pistol club. "
- A local range is an absolute must. Join the club, go and train 3-4 times midweek for 3-4 hours a time. Find time to compete in club, as well as local and interstate matchs on the weekends. Throw in some away competitions including international events every couple of months.
You will probably need keys and input into the club so you will end up on the committee doing a lot of club work as well.
"2) Qualified coaching support"
- There are a number of coach's that can work with new shooters and keep them safe. There are a few coach's that can bring an average shooter up towards a master shooter. If you are lucky you might find a coach that can bring a master shooter into International level, but he is probabily 800 miles away and you see him once a blue moon.
You end up doing your own coaching course, get involved coaching the lower levels and learning at the same time. You become your own coach. You bounce ideas of as many other coach's as possible, stir it all around and come up with an answer. You research as many sources as possible and end up with a library of books, notes and videos.
"3) Being part of a motivated team, members of which will mentor, challenge, and encourage each other to reach greater heights individually and as a group. "
- No, 99% of the time others at your level are competitors, you only come together every 4 years to be a team for two weeks in an individual event.
Yes, you are friends but still rivals. Most of the time you are on your own, training on your own with your own motivation.
If you are lucky you have a good shooting partner or mate (wife) to share your ups and downs.
"4) Financial support. Ammunition, equipment, and various miscellaneous expenses will need to be financed through donations, local clubs, friends and family, or personal savings to continue training and performing on a high level. "
- To feed the habit, you have to work. I hope it is a well paid job with a good boss (hopefully only doing 3-4 hours a day). You need lots of time off, so be prepared to use all your holidays on shooting. When they are all gone, you take time off work (without pay) to do the rest of the competitions. Otherwise win a lottery or be a millionaire.
"5) Family support is also essential. It is important to have your family members support and encourage your athletic progress, motivating you to achieve the competitive goals you set for yourself on your journey to success."
- Most important, get your wife or girlfriend (or both if you are so lucky) involved in the sport. You are spending so much time at this game, if they are not involved you are in deep trouble with your family life.
Somehow after all this you might make it to the games. it worked for Sydney and Athens, it might work next year.
See you in China.
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Steve Swartz
-
Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Steve,Steve Swartz wrote:O.K. Russ, you beat me at the Crosman Grand Prix but I still think it's inappropriate for you to advertise your for-profit business on this hosted bulletin board.
And disguising your advertisement as "content" is somewhat transparent.
Just my personal opinion.
Steve Swartz
I just finished reading Russ' extended comments on his web site, and I fail to see how his posting on TT or the reference to his extended comments, constitute inappropriate advertising on this website. In fact, his posting elicited further discussion, which is the purpose of TT.
Fred
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Guest
I can't disagree with most of the points. I would suggest that there are many different paths to the Olympics. As to why the US has not been very productive, it is complex. I was in the program when the NRA ran things as well as when USA Shooting was formed. Neither of them are to blame. In the US there are just too many options for pistol shooters. You have International, NRA Bullseye, IDPA, IPSIC, Cowboy etc. etc. Having traveled and shot in dozens of countries I would always check out the local clubs and programs. Let's take Germany. they have club matches which draw dozens to a FP match. Nationals draw hundreds. In the US how many shooters do you see at a local match? The issue has been talked about for years on the team. When we would give clinics around the US we got some interest, but when it came down to getting new shooters- who can hide the fact that you need to train a lot more than the others, and get less result. In China the national shooting center is full of teens trying the sport out, look at the new shooters they bring out every year. The Chinese dominate by using the theory that "THe wider the pyramid base the taller the peak".
That's not to say we can't win. I would never say that. We just have a very small pool to draw from. The US is not the only country with these issues. Last I heard the Canadians had to foot the bill for almost everything themselves.
As to the point of mental training not being required until a shooter is in the 570's. I think that is false since from day one a shooter is working on "relaxation" technics to overcome shooting pressure. You can't get to the 70's ot 60's without having some mental plan or control.
Greg Derr
That's not to say we can't win. I would never say that. We just have a very small pool to draw from. The US is not the only country with these issues. Last I heard the Canadians had to foot the bill for almost everything themselves.
As to the point of mental training not being required until a shooter is in the 570's. I think that is false since from day one a shooter is working on "relaxation" technics to overcome shooting pressure. You can't get to the 70's ot 60's without having some mental plan or control.
Greg Derr
Do not hold bad feelings....
Thank you Steve for your input.Steve Swartz wrote:O.K. Russ, you beat me at the Crosman Grand Prix but I still think it's inappropriate for you to advertise your for-profit business on this hosted bulletin board.
And disguising your advertisement as "content" is somewhat transparent.
Just my personal opinion.
Steve Swartz
I do not selling articles…. It is free.
Also I’m really sorry about my scores at Canadian Grand Prix; I never shot so badly for last 20 years. I’m worry only about scores not about you. Do not take it personally. You had done a lot by contributing for this forum and I respect it. But we are having different point of view to some aspects of competitive performance and our own way to achieve specific result. I hope I helped to some athletes too, during the last two years personally and by my articles, they made some people to think differently, I hope.
What we do in Olympic shooting is THINKING!
Do not hold bad feelings. OK
Russ
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2650 Plus
How to make the olympics in shooting
Enlist in the us army and join the USAMU.Every thing mentioned is there.Good Shooting Bill Horton
Success for me is achievement of personal goal. Do I have to share my personal goals over the Internet? By the way .... AP 592 and FP 582 if it OK with you?bryan wrote:richardh,
the selection policy is on the aisl website.
Russ, what is considered successful?
Do you make the olympic team, medal, or just club champ in issf events?
DavidM, 2 olympics back to back is not bad.
Who is your coach?
My first coach was Vasily Vinogradov. Great coach from Belarus.
Russ
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Guest
You may not like what he has to say but I believe he's the guy at the top of the following list
http://www.usashooting.com/viewRankings ... rPistolMen
and he does shoot very well. If your going to make nasty comments at least be man enough to put you name on them.
http://www.usashooting.com/viewRankings ... rPistolMen
and he does shoot very well. If your going to make nasty comments at least be man enough to put you name on them.
My goal of this article....
Thank you Richard.
Yes, today my name on the top of the list. My goal of this article to help other competitive athletes to think about complex issue, create business plan as you sad to. Get awareness and overcome those problems it is big deal in the long run to pursuing your greatest goal. I understand my position at this list is only temporary; my other goal is to raise the score bar at the US National level at least, as far my sources of time and money are limited. I believe in great opportunity of USA pistol team to become more successful on International level. And we see big progress already in Munich 2007! Great Job! But we can make it better! To make it happen we need more competitors with high scores to participate on the State level as far as to the National. We have to marketing our Olympic Style Pistol shooting more creative and “aggressively”. It is no miracles here it is hard complex work.
Thank you .
Russ
Yes, today my name on the top of the list. My goal of this article to help other competitive athletes to think about complex issue, create business plan as you sad to. Get awareness and overcome those problems it is big deal in the long run to pursuing your greatest goal. I understand my position at this list is only temporary; my other goal is to raise the score bar at the US National level at least, as far my sources of time and money are limited. I believe in great opportunity of USA pistol team to become more successful on International level. And we see big progress already in Munich 2007! Great Job! But we can make it better! To make it happen we need more competitors with high scores to participate on the State level as far as to the National. We have to marketing our Olympic Style Pistol shooting more creative and “aggressively”. It is no miracles here it is hard complex work.
Thank you .
Russ
-
Guest
Mr. Swartz has exposed what is ailing the majority of pistol shooters - being consumed with the 'I have to beat him syndrome". Maybe if he had been focusing on his fundementals he wouldn't have such resentment.
Steve Swartz wrote:O.K. Russ, you beat me at the Crosman Grand Prix but I still think it's inappropriate for you to advertise your for-profit business on this hosted bulletin board.
And disguising your advertisement as "content" is somewhat transparent.
Just my personal opinion.
Steve Swartz
shame people dont put their name on their posts, Im not that hard to find!
unfortunately not on the top of any lists at the moment!
Russ, I have been looking back through your old posts, maybe half way,there are a few. I understand what you are trying to say and do, but I think you have just gone about it the wrong way.
not to mention the way you have worded some things have not come across as you intended. I had a coach for a while that did the same thing, but I was fine with that as I could discuss it to figure out what he meant. this was igor sokalov, sorry if I spelt it wrong, but you probably know him.
he also is a very good coach.
reading your posts kept reminding me of some of his talks.
anyway, I see the same problem you do, regards internet coaching. you often need to see the person to give the correct advice. If they dont know what they are doing wrong, how do they ask the right question for help.
with psychology it is a bit easier over the internet, but to see them in top level comp,you can see what they are doing, or should be.
short of that you need to go right through their process, which is time consuming.
I see you have improved a lot over the last 2 yrs. has your veiw on shot process changed. your now competing closer to, or better than your training?
before was a large gap, which you were looking for help to fix.
Next week I am looking forward to look through your web site, I am away from computer for a while.
And Russ, for some reason in shooting, people are happy to pay $1600 on a new pistol, then spend 3+ yrs trying to shoot it.
thus wasting yrs, and the cost of training, but they would rather walk across burning coals, than pay for advice.
yet this may be the best money they ever spent!
what is the cost of spending yrs trying to find a location with the wrong map?
the cost is not so much financial, or time, but the psychological damage you can do to yourself, sometimes taking twice as long to fix, as the time it took to inflict it.
after inflicting some personal damage, you may disgard the correct map if given to you, as lots of undoing has to take place before you can accept you are on the wrong page.
Or is it pride preventing people from asking for help?
imho
bryan
unfortunately not on the top of any lists at the moment!
Russ, I have been looking back through your old posts, maybe half way,there are a few. I understand what you are trying to say and do, but I think you have just gone about it the wrong way.
not to mention the way you have worded some things have not come across as you intended. I had a coach for a while that did the same thing, but I was fine with that as I could discuss it to figure out what he meant. this was igor sokalov, sorry if I spelt it wrong, but you probably know him.
he also is a very good coach.
reading your posts kept reminding me of some of his talks.
anyway, I see the same problem you do, regards internet coaching. you often need to see the person to give the correct advice. If they dont know what they are doing wrong, how do they ask the right question for help.
with psychology it is a bit easier over the internet, but to see them in top level comp,you can see what they are doing, or should be.
short of that you need to go right through their process, which is time consuming.
I see you have improved a lot over the last 2 yrs. has your veiw on shot process changed. your now competing closer to, or better than your training?
before was a large gap, which you were looking for help to fix.
Next week I am looking forward to look through your web site, I am away from computer for a while.
And Russ, for some reason in shooting, people are happy to pay $1600 on a new pistol, then spend 3+ yrs trying to shoot it.
thus wasting yrs, and the cost of training, but they would rather walk across burning coals, than pay for advice.
yet this may be the best money they ever spent!
what is the cost of spending yrs trying to find a location with the wrong map?
the cost is not so much financial, or time, but the psychological damage you can do to yourself, sometimes taking twice as long to fix, as the time it took to inflict it.
after inflicting some personal damage, you may disgard the correct map if given to you, as lots of undoing has to take place before you can accept you are on the wrong page.
Or is it pride preventing people from asking for help?
imho
bryan
I really wish they made it so you had to register to post on this site. The crap that comes out of these people that don't have the guts to post their name is really lame. As for Steve exposing the problem right, I hate to tell you shooting is a competive sport so part of the goal is usually beating someone else. Its nice to have personal growth (which is important) but in the end you want to win and that requires doing better than your competitors (no it shouldn't be the focus but to express such things isn't necessarily exposing a problem either)
Bryan the problem isn't just that people don't want to pay the problem is also who can you pay.
I would gladly pay a coach that could get me from the 540 and 550's to the 570's and 580's, but who and where are they, there doesn't seem to be a lot in North America.
Bryan the problem isn't just that people don't want to pay the problem is also who can you pay.
I would gladly pay a coach that could get me from the 540 and 550's to the 570's and 580's, but who and where are they, there doesn't seem to be a lot in North America.
Richard, I look at competing higher than training, I then look at increasing the training results to meet goals.
if you are training at your comp goals, some of the hard work is already done.
Its no fun training 20 points higher than comp results.
It is also very difficult to be the best in the world if you are not competing against people of similar level very often.
So if your goal is to be the best in the world, you need team mates that also are in the top 10. does some of russ's motivation make more sense!
So 540 to 570. first is it possible for you.
that is for some people 540 is an acheivement in itself, for others you could take 10 yrs off, and do it first comp back.
If you want, pm me your training results, and your details.
eg age, length time shooting, what type. best results in comp, when, break down if you have it. pistol etc. current training program, shot plan, and personal goals. anything else thats relevant.
I can look at this and give some unbiased feedback.
I already work with people over the internet, and its hard. but it is possible.
bryan
if you are training at your comp goals, some of the hard work is already done.
Its no fun training 20 points higher than comp results.
It is also very difficult to be the best in the world if you are not competing against people of similar level very often.
So if your goal is to be the best in the world, you need team mates that also are in the top 10. does some of russ's motivation make more sense!
So 540 to 570. first is it possible for you.
that is for some people 540 is an acheivement in itself, for others you could take 10 yrs off, and do it first comp back.
If you want, pm me your training results, and your details.
eg age, length time shooting, what type. best results in comp, when, break down if you have it. pistol etc. current training program, shot plan, and personal goals. anything else thats relevant.
I can look at this and give some unbiased feedback.
I already work with people over the internet, and its hard. but it is possible.
bryan