TargetTalk

looking at purchase of 1st air pistol, don't want to have to upgrade in 12 months.

are the morini and P44 weight adjustable similar to the steyr LP10, ie the ones along the barrel. or some other system

do they all have sight radius adjustment. how important is it if they don,t?

is the morini electronic trigger that much better, or a personal preference?

what upgrades does the P44 have over the P40?

thanks

Your questions are pretty wide ranging , hard to answer without writing a chapter .

The weight systems of the three pistols are quite different , check out the catalogues for illustration . FWIW , purchasing weights for the Morini is quite expensive ( $90.00 Canadian ) , Styer comes with as much weight as I need , and is a neat system - personal +1 for Styer .

The Morini electronic trigger is very sweet , Then again the LP10 , properly adjusted is very nice in that department . The FWB P44 I handled was the equal of the Morini , then again FWB has been known for ground breaking trigger work , ever since the days of springers .

On the down side , the Morini is difficult as far as grip adjustments , and in some sections of the grip there is little wood to remove if needed . The Styer , and P44 are about equal in that area , with the P44 you can cant the sight , thus maybe avoiding some grip adjustment .

The P40 , could only be described as clunky , the P44 handles very nicely. It has most of the features found in the Styer , plus IMHO a nicer trigger .

For me it would be narrowed down to a choice between the Styer and P44 . The P44 is new , and has no real track record yet . That doesn't concern me much , at gut level it appears to be a good design . I would have no undue concerns on reliability , FWB has built fine PCP guns for a long time . The P44 feels lighter than the Styer , not a Crit , just an observation .

OTOH , the Styer is a distinguished vetran , with a lot of adherrants . Botton line , you wouldn't go wrong with any of the three . Reselling wouldn't be a problem . I own both a Morini and a Styer , I almost bought a P44 .

Hope this ramble helped , check out the search for observations on the Styer and Morini .

Chris

-.-

If you like to buy a pistol and not have to make an upgrade in 12 months, you have to go for the Feinwerkbau P44, is a new pistol and is sure, they dont make a new one in the next 2 or more years.

Maybe steyr make the new, ansious waited, LP10 Electronic, or Morini can offer the new 162 with regulable grips and hand operated sights (without screw driver), nobody knows.

Diferences between P40 and P44: P40 have a flap to load and put the pellet, P44 have a lever (morinized design), and more thin (steyrized design). I think the trigger in all FWB pistols is one of the modern mechanical wonder, from the model 2 (with the actual world record) to the P44 (from the model 65?...yes!!).

Nano

Nano wrote:If you like to buy a pistol and not have to make an upgrade in 12 months, you have to go for the Feinwerkbau P44, is a new pistol and is sure, they dont make a new one in the next 2 or more years.

Maybe steyr make the new, ansious waited, LP10 Electronic, or Morini can offer the new 162 with regulable grips and hand operated sights (without screw driver), nobody knows.

Diferences between P40 and P44: P40 have a flap to load and put the pellet, P44 have a lever (morinized design), and more thin (steyrized design). I think the trigger in all FWB pistols is one of the modern mechanical wonder, from the model 2 (with the actual world record) to the P44 (from the model 65?...yes!!).

Nano

Realy ? I thought it was the p40 trigger that put the last nail in it's coffin, but then what do i know

JY

Is the P44 sold in the US?

PardiniGSP wrote:Is the P44 sold in the US?

Yes

With all due respect to the posters above it is you that will be shooting the gun and it has to be you who decides which best suits you. All three are technically more than capable of doing anything you could ask of them so the answer is buy which suits you. I.e. the gun that feels 'best' and if you can try them out, which shoots the nicest.

Rob.

With all due respect Rob, this sort of answer is fairly useless and typical of some of your replies. This is a discussion board, people are looking for opinions, answers, discussion, justification etc. If every query was answered by the adage of 'what suits you the best', no discussion would take place. And as for the ' just try them all and pick the one you like' - how realistic is that?

I am an older (than some/younger than others) fairly new shooter. I have used an IZH 46, an LP1, ,FWB 65, a Gamo Compact, a K60, a K58, K2s and in the last two weeks, a P44. It has taken some time and patience to make these changes. A couple went on simultaneously. Each pistol except for the K2s and the P44 have been used and sold for about the same as I paid. If I were wealthier, maybe I would collect. Anyway, the point is that there are ways to try different pistols and mostly it requires time and patience.

As for the P44, the features of this pistol match any on the market and I will say that the trigger is the nicest I have ever used. (no experience with Morini, but I prefer the idea of mechanical trigger personally). While the pistol is exceptionally light in comparison to some of the others mentioned, there are options to add adjustable weights. With that, it could well suit those wanting front-heavy, grip heavy or a light (sometimes read "short) pistol. Coupled with the very adjustable grip and sights, I think it would be hard not to tailor this pistol to just about any shooter. (I don't work for FWB).

I have put about two tins of pellets through it and I think the Hawthorne Effect has long gone. What I do notice is much tighter groups and virtually NO FLIP....just flat shot going where I hold when I execute good technique. While new in the market, FWB has been around a long time and there is good support.

My move to the Pardini line was based on my liking the trigger...the P44 is definitely superior. While the K2s is very accurate, it is significantly heavier. This rambling answer may not be very technical, but since we are discussing subjective evaluations of what feels best for each shooter, I am passing on my impressions. FWIW

thanks for the replies
been shooting rifles most of my life, 12-44, now decided to try pistol, 44-?.

my new club is very small, so options to test are limited.

I understand that all the pistols mentioned can be customised to suit.

but the steyr has the adjustable sight radius, looks better with the barrell cover, which has a purpose of carrying weights.

So in weighing it up, it would be between P44, and LP 10.

I don't think either would be in the class of "forgiving", largely due to the compensators.

but if it is like my P70, it can be adjusted to a point so it has little affect, to get a slight recoil making it more forgiving so to speak.
personal preference again

this subject has been covered a lot, but I was really after the mechanical differences as I couldn't find a great deal on it. or options list.
not how many spare bottles it comes with.

hope to aquire one soon.

top end wrote:With all due respect Rob, this sort of answer is fairly useless and typical of some of your replies. This is a discussion board, people are looking for opinions, answers, discussion, justification etc. If every query was answered by the adage of 'what suits you the best', no discussion would take place. And as for the ' just try them all and pick the one you like' - how realistic is that?

Sorry if you don't like my replies - but I'm trying to help the guy get what suits him - not what suits other people. Whilst some people may be happy missleading people into buying something because it works for them, I am not. The discussion is pretty much all personal opinion which by deffinition is person specific.

I re-iterate the person buying the gun needs to buy what suits them.

Rob.

top end wrote:With all due respect Rob, this sort of answer is fairly useless and typical of some of your replies. This is a discussion board, people are looking for opinions, answers, discussion, justification etc. If every query was answered by the adage of 'what suits you the best', no discussion would take place. And as for the ' just try them all and pick the one you like' - how realistic is that?

You may not like Rob's answer but it is the right answer. No one can tell someone else which of the top air pistols is going to suit them. Yes it's easy to steer people away from junk, but the guy narrowed it down to every top air pistol, from there it has to be his job to pick the right one for him. Anyone who tells someone to buy XYZ because its the best doesn't have a clue, especailly with out kowing anything about them or how they shoot (ie someone who has a coach and is told something may suit them better that may be valid advice). Most of these guys that give this crap advice are just doing it to justify their own purchase.

I shoot a LP10 and LP5 do a search I don't beleive I've ever told anyone to go out and buy one, its a fine pistol if you like it buy one. For that matter I like the LP1 too.

A Morini is a fine pistol if you like it go buy one, same goes for the new P44 or the new Walther.

Now if someone wants to know about something specific ie how does the grip adjust or the trigger adjust, thats a way more intelligent question than asking "whats the best pistol".

top end wrote:With all due respect Rob, this sort of answer is fairly useless and typical of some of your replies. This is a discussion board, people are looking for opinions, answers, discussion, justification etc. If every query was answered by the adage of 'what suits you the best', no discussion would take place. And as for the ' just try them all and pick the one you like' - how realistic is that?

how realistic is that?

As realistic as it gets !

I will grant though that unfortunately not all have the ability or the opportunity to test everything, so these threads do have limited value - if only they help people think.

JulianY wrote:

top end wrote:With all due respect Rob, this sort of answer is fairly useless . This is a discussion board, people are looking for opinions, answers, discussion, justification etc. If every query was answered by the adage of 'what suits you the best', no discussion would take place. And as for the ' just try them all and pick the one you like' - how realistic is that?

how realistic is that?

As realistic as it gets !

I will grant though that unfortunately not all have the ability or the opportunity to test everything, so these threads do have limited value - if only they help people think.

I think the adage , at the end of one's point of view " what suits you best" is justified .

One should not reply ... " What suits you best " period. But give the one posing the question your particular answer... and I'm sure we all agree that there is no single 'right' gun for all or we'd all be shooting the same gun , and only one manufacturer will produce one particular model and discontiue all other models and the rest of the manufacturers will be out of business...
It is because no particular gun is so perfect FOR ALL that innovations and new models come to be .

A point to stress , is that today .. we are all made aware through contact with other shooters.. the media , the internet and magazines that there is a large number of pistols to choose from ... We are also all painfully aware that we may not have access to ALL the models and makes that we would like to try ... for "try before you buy" remains the gold standard for choice.
So... some go with the herd ... the majority for the most popular , some go for the guns that win medals.. and some simply go for what they like aesthetically or specification-wise.. and many ... including myself have bought pistols " sight unseen " .

Now if I have made a short list of two or three pistols to choose... and one of them comes my way Used but in excellent condition and for a good price... I would go for it... Not just to save money .. but it will have an advantage over the rest of the short list is that I can apply the 'try before you buy' principle... Sometimes the theoretically better pistol. or the one used by the current World Champion is going to be a gamble... For how would I know that I share the same tastes as the Champion ( if not the same ability ! ) ??

I bought a Tesro PA 10 because its looks((on the internet )) appealed to me , incidentally I was relieved to know from people who posted here that many have done so .. buying sight unseen... , a month after my purchase , a used Morini 162M came my way .. I was glad I bought the Tesro. I did not like the Morini sights ( compared to the Tesro , nor its stiff cocking lever , nor the way the cylinder comes on and off the gun., nor the hooked lever that locks the cocking lever if the pressure in the cylinder is low..... but the trigger and grips were good though . The Morini was on my short list.. but when I actually handled it I was glad I chose the Tesro.


Anyways... in the end... " What Suits You Best " ! *smile*

Elmas

.

Who will hit really many 10ns... must simply choose the pistol to his/her own taste.. and simply make special-made-grip (replicas von Morini etc... they are simply copies... which were made with copier... no one think in Switzerland how... bad or good... grip suits to you... they makes money). Ok... it was some % of your future success... Next step mental work...

P.S. My Grip:

I realize this is an old thread but may have some useful info.

I own both a P40 and P44. I find both air pistols to be exceptional.

The P40 is much improved over the C10. The rear sight is adjustable in width at the notch and radius using a hex key screw. Unlike the P44, the P40 does not adjust in cant at the rear sight. The front sight can also be adjusted by moving the sight post or replacing the sight post with various widths.

The P40 uses a trap door loading mechanism. The P40 has an impulse absorbing system that works well. The barrel has three vents and a muzzle compensator to damp muzzle flip and barrel movement. The system is very effective and reliable. I thought I needed to make an adjustment to the absorber (all the measurements, indicators and instructions are found in the trilingual manual). In the end all I did was adjust it off and back to the same location.

The P40 has a Morini anatomical grip that can be adjusted for cant, grip angle, and rotation. The P40 uses a set of hex screws mounted to the trigger/sear housing to achieve the adjustments. The trigger is completely adjustable in lenth of draw (about .5 inches worth), trigger pad angle around the trigger post verticle axis. Trigger dynamics can be adjusted for trigger take up length and weight as well as trigger break weight (500g at factory, ISSF standard).

Personal Impression of the P40- Outstanding. I really don't understand the negative press it seems to be getting. It is a heavy pistol and can be made heavier through the addition of several weights and weight rod combinations.

P44- Natural evolution of the P40. The P44 is very light. I couldn't shoot it without adding some weight to it. P44 has a dual rod sliding weight system that mounts (with supplied screws) to the top of receiver at the base of the barrel. You can get steel or aluminum rods and up to 3 30g sliding steel weights. Even my 12 year old daughter shoots better with the 30g weight on the pistol.

Other improvements/differences to the P40:
Breach opens with a lever and is always visible.
The dry fire mechanism is much easier to operate than on the P40
Grip adjustments are made easier by a simplified mechanism
Rear sight is also adjustable in cant (rotates around the barrel axis)

Personal Impression:
The P44 is a clearly logical next step for FWB. Shootability and handling are identicle to the P40. P44 is slightly more appealing due to cleaner lines and some refined mechanics. I'm wary of the open mechanism that is a byproduct of weight reduction. The impulse damping system and breach operating levers are exposed and open to possible contamination. I am wary as I have not found this to be of any concern to date.

Bottom line: I highly recommend both the P40 and P44.

I hope that helps.

Well its late this side of the world, and a cask red has been keeping me company, so I excuse any mistakes in advance.

the responses have been overwelming, and helpfull.

rob, your comments are very good.
issue is I don't have the chance to try any of the top guns. I feel I can make any of them do the job if I can adjust them enough, which is why I started a tread on something discussed in great length already, but not so much on the technical side.

dragon 2, I played with a new P44, but think a LP10 looked better, but as a new gun, couldn't shoot it!

I think I will be stuck buying S/H, so the info on the P40 was good.

I am still looking for a reasonably priced LP10. low miles.

ruig, grip looks good, still learning to modify them to suit. I agree, grip is important, then mental side.

still open to comments, still liking the look of the LP10, but if something else turns up at the right price, will seriously look at it.

one other comment, I havent shot pistol long enough to know what suits me. Also I have been shooting borrowed crankers most of the time so anything else feels strange.
I also have got used to pushing the cranker around a little, so results suffer using a modern gun (LP300) as the velocity is way higher.

one concern is once I get a pistol, how long would it take to get used to it?

what score is good for a mod 65?

Well its late this side of the world, and a cask red has been keeping me company, so I excuse any mistakes in advance.

the responses have been overwelming, and helpfull.

rob, your comments are very good.
issue is I don't have the chance to try any of the top guns. I feel I can make any of them do the job if I can adjust them enough, which is why I started a tread on something discussed in great length already, but not so much on the technical side.

dragon 2, I played with a new P44, but think a LP10 looked better, but as a new gun, couldn't shoot it!

I think I will be stuck buying S/H, so the info on the P40 was good.

I am still looking for a reasonably priced LP10. low miles.

ruig, grip looks good, still learning to modify them to suit. I agree, grip is important, then mental side.

still open to comments, still liking the look of the LP10, but if something else turns up at the right price, will seriously look at it.

one other comment, I havent shot pistol long enough to know what suits me. Also I have been shooting borrowed crankers most of the time so anything else feels strange.
I also have got used to pushing the cranker around a little, so results suffer using a modern gun (LP300) as the velocity is way higher.

one concern is once I get a pistol, how long would it take to get used to it?

what score is good for a mod 65?

Bryan,
I started with a mod 65 back on the team at school. I shot it for two years then moved up to FWB C10. Loved the C10 as we always shot three gun matches (standard, free, then air). I found the crank fatigued my wrist quite a bit. Back then I was shooting 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, 10 months a year.
The team and I usually posted 540s to 550s on average with the mod 65 and jumped 10-15 when we rolled to the C-10. My best match score was a school high 579 with the C-10 (many years ago).
We kept the mod 65s for the new members. I spent a lot of time convincing the "new guys" their pistol was working fine and shooting better than they were. I know you have read that a lot; not trying to retread old ground. The new guys usually cut their groups by half after the demo.
MOD 65 is a good gun but it will wear on the wrist. The new FWB P103 has a longer lever and pumps from the bottom of the pistol. I have fairly easy access to FWB at the moment so I tend to run with that model line.

FWB is pricey. Any of the new guns I've seen (Walther, Steyr, Morini) are a great choice. You will really appreciate not having to crank the pistol for each shot.

I use a Gehmann pump to keep my cylinders full. I was tapping off of a SCUBA tank but it could not get the cylinders to full pressure after only a few refills. The pumps run from 200 to 400 depending on supplier and brand. The Hill pump looks good. Gehmann and several others sell powered pumps but they will set you back more than $1000.

Sounds as if you are looking at this from all directions. Good luck. Good shooting.


Phil