TargetTalk

I am currently in the market for a new free pistol. I wish that there was a local gun shop where I could get a feel for both of my choices, but that does not seem to be an option. So, what I would like to hear from some of you guys is this. If your choices were between a Toz 35M and a Morini CM84E, what might be the deciding factors involved in a wise choice. I know that the Toz has a great reputation for being an old standby, but I am leaning towards the Morini's electric trigger. How I wish that I could shoot them both for a day, then make up my mind.

I've got both...and it would be hard to pick one over the other.

The Toz is generally considered a more forgiving gun - if you make a mistake, it doesn't hit you as hard. A good gun for NOT shooting 6s and 7s.

The Morini is less forgiving...and more muzzle-heavy. On the other hand, the long sight radius makes it better for shooting 10s.

My advice? You were leaning toward the Morini. Go ahead and get it. You MUST have absolute confidence in your equipment. "Good enough" is NOT good enough. Confidence alone is reason enough for a decision.

Don't rule out the Pardini K22. Very much worth a consideration.

Something you may have overlooked in your choice, choose a pistol in current production.
Some of the older guns are very hard to get parts for.
I believe that some new Toz 35's are available, but they we produced a few years back.
Some of the top shooters are buying the new Toz's just to use for parts and to get the parts box supplied with the pistol.

My experience with the Morini was only for the three months I had a "loaner" from a close friend. I would have zero complaints about the gun---except for one major problem I had and that was either mine or the gun's tendency to produce a "whip" that was downright impossible to deal with. Possibly the "long" barrel was my problem with the gun, with or without the comp ( which I have only found to be a hindrance )--- (though it looks cool)---needed too much cleaning. On my own personal TOZ, I have other problems (me) but that disastrous whip is never there. Just personal observations.

The subject of barrel length between the two brings up a question I have. I see that the barrel length for a Morini is shown at 11.4 inches. I seem to be unable to find a barrel length listed anywhere for the Toz. I looked in the tenP files as well and nothing. Who can tell me that length please?
Other than the complaint of "barrel whip " the only other thing I have found others to complain of is that the Morini seems to possibly be ammo finicky, possibly due to tight chamber. I have searched through the archives and found this issue mentioned by more than one person.

Bbl. length: 300mm (11.81"). Bob, the fore end probably acts as a damper. While I like the look (Always wanted to own a classic Hammerli or Luna), The Soviets never were ones for unnecessary frills.
Paul

While I'm never likely to set a world record with my free pistol shooting skills I can say that I've owned multiple copies of both the Toz and the Morini, and currently own one of each. The differences between them are substantial. I'll list but a few here.

1) Toz firing pin springs rapidly go "soft", and you need to be prepared to change on in the middle of a match if it starts misfiring. I'm still on my original Morini firing pin and spring, maybe 15,000 -20,000 rounds later so I don't know how long they last, but it's safe to say the Morini spring gives much better life than the Toz spring.

2) counterpoint to 1) above, the TOZ is very easy to take apart, while the Morini is just slightly harder.

3) Toz trigger is highly adjustable to give a light or heavy weight, a long or short pull. The Morini gives the same adjustments for weight, but there's no way to make the pull longer - it's always extremely short and crisp.

4) counterpoint to 3), the Toz trigger is mounted pretty far forward and folks with short fingers often have a hard time reaching it. The Morini trigger moves pretty far back and isn't as much a problem in this regard.

5) Toz has non-adjustable rear sight notch width, while Morini notch width is adjustable.

6) counterpoint to 5), the Toz sight adjustments are made with knobs while the Morini requires the use of a screwdriver. Some folks find this to be a point against the Morini (I personally don't mind it, but would prefer adjusting the sights using knobs).

7) contrary to posts above, the Morini CAN be made to be far less nose-heavy than the Toz (I've actually made the balance point on mine right over the trigger, and it didn't take much ingenuity to make this happen)

8) Toz factory grips are horrendous for most hands, so plan on buying a Rink or similar

9) Toz doesn't require a battery. If properly cared for a Morini battery lasts a year of regular shooting, and then some (I've gone 16 months of regular shooting, only putting in my "match" battery for important matches).

10) Morini incorporates 'safety circuit' light beam in trigger design to prevent accidental firing when closing the breech. The down-side to this is that the Morini will go "bang" pretty regularly if you disable this safety circuit or if it fails. Mine has never gone 'bang' at any time other than when I fingered the trigger.

11) Toz is capable of having the sear engagement adjusted to the point where it will not reliably engage, making the gun go 'bang' when you close the breech (see 10 above). A properly set sear engagement will result in a fairly crisp trigger feel, while virtually never causing an accidental discharge.

OK, that's it for points for me tonight. Bottom line is that you're trying to make a choice between what has largely been acknowledged as the top pair of pistols in the business. If you can't try before you buy (and you should if there's any way you can) then pick the one that appeals the most to you. As mentioned earlier, confidence in your equipment is a 'must have' in this game.

On a personal note I don't have as much confidence in the mechanics of my Toz, and also have done a lot of grip work on my Morini. The net result is that I shoot the Morini as my main gun and carry the Toz as a backup gun. If the Morini breaks I can yank the Toz out of my box and invariably shoot at least a solid 9 with it from the first shot. You just can't go wrong with either of these pistols.

Since both pistols are highly sought after, you could probably just choose one and sell it without too much loss if you really didn't like it. Better yet, though perhaps financially impractical, buy both and shoot them side by side. Keep the one you like and sell the other. I know it sounds indulgent, but at least you'll be sure that your final choice was the right one for you. Just a thought!!

Nicole did a bang up job back in January on the K22 Free pistol. It would be interesting to read her opinions after a year of using it.

I have shot all three of this guns, and I can tell you this.

- The TOZ is an Ugly gun with a nice box and crocked sights. You can also change the inserts on the front sight to several options and the rear blades.
The trigger is not all that. and You only shoot better with it because it has a less precise sight alignment due to the distance between sights (front and rear).
Finally the gun is old and has that aged look. You will also have to be a wood craftsman or spend $300.00 more on a decent pair of "Rink" grips for it.

- The Pardini K-22 is a futuristic looking gun with user friendly sight system and adjustable weights from the factory. The trigger is not that great but If you put a trigger stop behind it with a 1 cent rubber damper it, it has the best feeling trigger period!
The factory grips run a bit large so it will probably help if you get a smaller size to start. They are however usable.
The gun comes with 2 front sight inserts in two sizes (width) and some tools.
It is a good shooter and parts are available and not so expensive.
I also like the loading on this gun vice the out of place lever on the bottom of the grip on the TOZ.
The guys from PARDINI will go out of their way to help you and make you feel like a factory shooter iregardless of how many Gold medals you have.
Their Customer Service is Real and Awesome.

- Finally the Morini. Comes with the best grips from the factory. Many people I know have left them as is. The trigger is AWESOME. Once you try it you will want it. Same feeling every time always. progressive trigger with no creep. It is not as adjustable as the other two but it is more consistent than either pardini or toz.
The gun has great balance and feel and if you are worried about the gun being too unforgiving, just move the rear sight back to make the sight radius shorter and you will have something similar to a TOZ.
Biggest advantage of the MORINI is the trigger that alows you to dryfire without having to cock anything. This is INVALUABLE FOR TRAINING as you do not have to cock each time you want to get a trigger pull feel
Believe me It is useful. (so much I ordered one mainly for this)

I own a Pardini K-22 and just ordered a Morini. So I am putting my money where my mouth is. The TOZ is im my opinion outdated and best suited for a museum. Besides for the Money You will be paying for one you should not take a chance getting a gun with Crocked sights and such a poor finish.

Get a Morini CM84E or a Pardini K-22 and you will be happy you did, plus you will not have to buy another gun when you realize the TOZ needs to be TOSSED.

PPC King wrote: - The TOZ is an Ugly gun with a nice box and crocked sights. You can also change the inserts on the front sight to several options and the rear blades.
The trigger is not all that. and You only shoot better with it because it has a less precise sight alignment due to the distance between sights (front and rear).
Finally the gun is old and has that aged look. You will also have to be a wood craftsman or spend $300.00 more on a decent pair of "Rink" grips for it.

What is the size of standard Toz factory grips?
I'm thinking buy one, but i must order it without testing grip. The size of my palm is 9,5 cm, thin and long fingers (pianist): it's too big for the Toz standard grip? Anyone find the Toz grips fitting him well?
Thank you very much.
LukeP

The TOZ grips were nevr meant to fit anyone "as is". The idea is to fit them specifically to your hand. It is a trail and error process for most people with a lot of wood removal and filling in with putty. An excellent putty, by the way, is the wood toned epoxy putty that comes in the tube. You cut off a slice, roll it up to mix the catalyst and resin, mash it onto your grip and then grip the pistol in a normal shooting manner. The result is a superior fit. Get the walnut color for a decent match to the wood tone. The hardened putty stays on and can be sanded and carved should you wish.