TargetTalk

I wanted to share with you a problem I'm facing for over a year in my AP shooting performance.

In training my shooting process is rather consistent , I hardly abort shots (it happen to me in a 1 for 10 raises ratio) and my pace stands on less than a minute for a shot.

In competition the entire process looks different. The biggest different is with the abort ratio. I believe my numbers stand on an average of 3 raises for a single shot (or maybe worse). Due to this problem I always afraid from time pressure, since during a competition it is not very rare that I'll try to produce a single shot in 5-7 minutes period. This lead to situation that I hardly rest during a match and I usually finish exhausted.

All my coach attempts to train in pressured environemnt (like internal matches against other club members) did not change my training shooting pattren to be similar to competition and did not improve my competition performance.

It is interesting to notice that during training I'm pretty consistent result wise (averaging 92-93 in the range of 90-96) while during competition I'm very inconsistent 53x - 55x range with sets range of 83-96.

I'll appreciate any comments on how to face this issue (since I feel very frustrated)

First of all: Accept the fact that you are nervous. Some nervousness is actually positive regarding performance. It's when it gets over the top performance starts to degrade. Learn to accept the nervousness - see it as something positive and natural.

Second: It will get better with experience. Compete a lot and you will get better with handling competition situations.

Third: Trust your hold. During competitions your arm will move/shake more than when training. You can hit tens anyway - you'll get supriced how much you can move over the target and still hit the 10-ring.

Some say mental training is the solution for all types of problems. Maybe so, but competition experience is nothing you can learn from a book.

Cheers,
Axel

Like Axel says, it's a practice thing. Remember that you are training for competitions so the whole point is to repeat what you do in training. More competitions will help but you have to go into them in the correct frame of mind. Forget past experiences and go in confident of your ability. Have faith in your shots and let the shots go at the same time you do when training. Small comps are probably a very good building block and just use them as a training tool for the bigger matches.

You could also do with training your mind. Learn to be able to relax during competitions and to keep calm.

Above all enjoy it and take everything as positives,

Rob.

The sad thing is that I think I know the theory. My biggest problem is to be able to convience both my mind and body to go through and implement this state of mind. As much as I tried to take one shot at a time and forget the context of competition as a factor, I could not correct and change my competition behavior. It's like it is stronger than me ...

One of the biggest symptom is the time it takes me to release the first competition shot. My first raise is for the protocol, it is like I'm doomed to abort the first raise (and usually the second one as well...)

The million dollar question: is there a technique one can use to overcome these symptoms ?

Avi

Have a read of

Mind Gym : An Athlete's Guide to Inner Excellence (Paperback)
by Gary Mack, David Casstevens

It;s full of stuff about baseball but get beyond that and it worth its weight in gold

J

Haleva:

I have a team mate with the same problem, mani abort for each shot, the coach make a special trainning sistem, I think is making good results.

The coach stand stopped behind the shooter with a cronometer in hand, in 3 seconds after the pistol is stopped in the aiming area, the shot be released, the coach wait 3 seconds and (of course the shooter have a long natural time to make the shot, more than 10 seconds) make an verval order to shot (maybe a scream like !!! shoooot!!!), the shooter have to make the shot with no importance of the score, the trainning is to minimize the timming, if the shot are an 4 or outside the target, dont have importance, the trainning is focused in no abort and reduce the time for each shot.


the person who cronometer the time does not need to be a trainer, can be a friend.

If you read "the vital problems of pistol shooting" in our host page ( http://www.pilkguns.com/anatoli.shtml ) , writted by Anatoliy Piddubnyy, he talk about a tape recorder with the time to shoot, one minute one shot.



I hope all these help,

Nano

Thanks for all your inputs.

Do you think that a small variation of Nano suggestion (forcing to shoot on every raise without a friend command...) is a good approach to try in a match ?

Haleva wrote:Do you think that a small variation of Nano suggestion (forcing to shoot on every raise without a friend command...) is a good approach to try in a match ?

No. One of the things that separates the elite shooter from the sub-elite is the ability to know when not to shoot and the willingness to abort the shot.

In my experience it is the fear of failure that makes releasing the shot so much harder during a match. The willingness to abort should be independant of the increased need to abort. It doesn't matter one iota how many times you raise the gun during a match, provided that you abort the shot process when necessary.

Now we come to how to release the shots in a match as beautifully as you do in training. If we all new how to do that then we would all have better personal bests. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. In the overwhelming majority of cases the problem will be a mental one rather physical or technique. I would suggest that finding the answer will be easiest if you can get help from a properly trained sports psychologist, one who you trust, who can work with you on a one-to-one basis. As I said before, there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Individual problems need individual solutions.

What do you do if you do not have access to a good sports psych. When I was shooting competitively the best we had were enthusiastic amateurs. Not necessarily trained or competant, just enthusiastic. The skill there was in being able to spot the bull and ignore it. In effect this left most top shooters on their own to develop their own fall-back plan for when matches were not going as well as training. My own, which after discussion with a sports psych many years later was confirmed as being reasonable for me, was to just concentrate on a smooth and positive trigger release. Sight alignment and positioning were of no importance at all. I had done them hundreds of thousands of times, they could look after themselves. The problem was that the trigger was not being released, so the only thing I had to concentrate on was that release. I didn't want to force it or rush it, just concentrate on releasing it correctly. It worked for me but certainly won't suit everyone.

Let me say this ; If your team's position in the match hangs on your particular score ; If your Club's reputation hangs in the balance... If you live off Money Prizes in competitions... then you have 'good reason' to be nervous and self doubting.

If in reality there is none of the above to worry about . Then all you need worry about is 'how you do on a personal level' .

I see for you a goal more lofty and important than a high score.. namely ; to shoot well , as well as you normally do in training. Your priority would be to get your shots off in your average time as per training and that this should be your goal regardless of where your shots land. Once this goal is achieved , then you can switch to the 'lesser' goal of upping your score by being careful and watchful of where your shots land , in the hope of duplicating your high scores in training in a match.

Elmas

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Elmas (Guest ) wrote:Let me say this ; If your team's position in the match hangs on your particular score ; If your Club's reputation hangs in the balance... If you live off Money Prizes in competitions... then you have 'good reason' to be nervous and self doubting. <snip>
Elmas
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With respect you cannot afford to think of those things. You must dissociate yourself from any and all factors that take away your focus from the shot process.

You have to remember the only thing you have control over is the one shot in the gun and where it goes. Once that shot has left the gun you just move on to the next shot etc. If you cannot do that then your performance and scores will suffer. We all do it but it's an often neglected aspect of training to learn how to get the mental bits right (or at least better). Yes it takes time and practice but the rewards are there for you to reap.

Rob.

Haleva, I too suffer from the same condition. The solution for me has been to up the intensity in training. The problem I have (and if you look deep down probably you too) was that in training the shot didn't matter and in competition every shot matters. Even all the games in the world wont change this (matches with team mates, mock finals ect.). The solution has to come from with in. This is where I finally took the single shot match to heart. Everyshot is a match, every shot is important (in practice or in competition), you won't take a shot unless everything is right. What I found over some time is the amount I abort in practice now matches closer the amount I abort in a match and both my practice scores have gone up and my match scores are now closer to my practice scores. It really impossible to lessen the importance of a match so you need to up the importance of a practice.

Richard H wrote: my match scores are now closer to my practice scores. It really impossible to lessen the importance of a match so you need to up the importance of a practice.

on speaking to Tom Radhead coach last week at a competition he told me that a small comp should be about a 3-5 point drop on you training score out of 600, A international should be about 5-7 point drop and so on. So I think you should except some drop in scores I train but try not to look at my score but reduce the size of my group.

psf32 wrote:
on speaking to Tom Radhead coach last week at a competition he told me that a small comp should be about a 3-5 point drop on you training score out of 600, A international should be about 5-7 point drop and so on. So I think you should except some drop in scores I train but try not to look at my score but reduce the size of my group.

If you go back and read the inital post we are talking about a 20 plus drop. My training scores vary by 3-7 points so I wouldn't even notice a 3-7 point drop. I don't beleive it is a good thing to accept that your scores will be lower in competition, (even if it might be the fact). All one can ask of oneself is to shoot within your practice average at a comp. if you shoot between 550-560 in practice, you want to shoot between 550-560 in a match not 540. Just for knowledge sake who isTom Radhead, just wondering if I should know who that is?

Richard H wrote:

Richard H wrote:
Just for knowledge sake who isTom Radhead, just wondering if I should know who that is?

Tom is the England coach and has a vast knowledge of pistol shooting.

psf32 wrote:on speaking to Tom Radhead coach last week at a competition he told me that a small comp should be about a 3-5 point drop on you training score out of 600, A international should be about 5-7 point drop and so on.

That is not universally accepted.

I tend to agree with David. Whilst many of us shoot less well in comps we shouldn't expect or just accept it. In theory you can argue you'll be in a sub-optimal state of arousal in training and should peak in competitions. That would suggest therefore optimal scores should be shot in comps and possibly explains why world records are often shot in the olympics.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:I tend to agree with David. Whilst many of us shoot less well in comps we shouldn't expect or just accept it. In theory you can argue you'll be in a sub-optimal state of arousal in training and should peak in competitions. That would suggest therefore optimal scores should be shot in comps and possibly explains why world records are often shot in the olympics.

Rob.

Actual I agree with bot David and Tom. Garry Mack ( see my previous post on this thread ) talks about a performance versus arousal as a bell curve. As arousal increases so does performance until it reaches the top of the bell curve, then as arousal continues to increase performance drop off, eventually dramatically.

The question is where are you on the curve? If you arrive at the match with too high level of arousal you performance will drop, even more and it will crash. On the other hand if you are calm an become aroused ( not beyond the peek) your performance will increase.

Training is your foundation.

Confidence in your training, self image and experience all slow the rate at which you climb the curve. Ultimately self awareness is the only defense you have. You need to be self aware as arousal climbs take action before it turns to anxiety. The are plenty of techniques in sports psychology to help with this.

Julian

Why are you aborting more in competition than in practice? That may sound like a silly question, but the answer may not be as obvious as it appears.

- Is your shot process different in competition than it is in practice?

- Is your hold that much worse in competition than it is in practice?

- Are you more critical in competition than in practice?

The shot process is every step, physical and mental, that you take to complete the shot. It includes not only the mechanical steps you follow (grasp, align, cock, load, raise, settle, fire, follow through, call shot) but also the thoughts in your head. You should have specific cues you say or think the keep the mind focused on the task.

As for the hold, the stress of competition may increase your area of hold. But it is more likely that a shooter is overly critical of his/her hold in competition and more willing to accept it in practice. If your shot process is consistent but your hold is just a little bigger, then take the shot. You may be surprised to learn that the size of your hold has a small effect on your final score. If your hold is a lot bigger then you should have some relaxation and confidence building techniques in your bag of tricks.

If you are more critical of your hold in competition then find out why. You have very consistent practice scores. You should be able to describe your hold in extreme detail.
- How fast/smooth is your raise
- How far above the target do you raise
- How long do you hover over the target
- How long does it take to settle
- What is the pattern of the settle?
- What is the pattern of movement of the sight alignment (F/R Sights)?
- What is the pattern of movement of the sight picture (on the target)?
- What are the cues you use to start the trigger pull?
- What are the cues you use to abort the shot?

If you can't answer these questions then you are not really looking at your sight alignment and picture in practice and you can't make an accurate judgment in competition if you need to abort.

If you shot process is interrupted, or you start thinking of things that are not part of the process and you can't get back on track, then abort immediately; don't wait until you have held on target for 15 seconds to abort.

One of my favorite shooting books is "Golf is not a Game of Perfect" by Bob Rotella. The section on the training mentality vs trusting mentality may apply to your situation. When we train, we analyze what we are doing. We think about the mechanical details, what we should do and what we should not do, what went right and what went wrong. However, that mentality is fatal in competition. We need to develop a trusting mentality. We trust our process and our hold. We know that we have trained and practiced and we are ready for the match. We are confident in our preparation and our ability. This mentality must be developed in practice. He says 60% of practice should be in this mode and up to 90% in the few weeks leading up to a big competition.

Finally we must accept that some shots will be wide, but over time, more and more will be in the center. You have to forget about the bad shots and remember the good shots.

When you make a good shot, revel in it. Replay it in your head. Enjoy it. Smile. Think about it. Replay it again.

When you make a poor shot, accept that your hold is dynamic. If the gun happens to go off when it is not perfectly aligned, so be it. It will happen. Forget about it. Think about the good shots. Then go make it happen.

Finally, make each shot in practice really important. Accept nothing but the best from yourself. Make each shot in competition just another enjoyable day at the range. The shot value is just a hole in a piece of paper. Let the scorekeepers add up the score. You just enjoy the shooting process, the mental clarity, the single minded purpose of accuating the trigger without affecting the sight alignment.

Good luck,
Steve Turner

Thanks guys,

There is another match on saturday. I'll try to take some of the posts with me and enjoy the match. I'm planning on taking it one shot at a time hopefully not letting the match context get in the way.

Haleva wrote:Thanks guys,

There is another match on saturday. I'll try to take some of the posts with me and enjoy the match. I'm planning on taking it one shot at a time hopefully not letting the match context get in the way.

Be sure to let us know how you did !!


Elmas


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