TargetTalk

I somehow managed to skip the whole CO2 pistol period. I jumped from Spring Piston guns straight to Compressed Air. Well, I decided to change that and just bought my first CO2 pistol, FWB Model 2.

I read Scott's notes but I am still not clear how I am supposed to know when to stop filling if I have to weigh the cylinder after the fact? I don't believe there are gauges on CO2 tanks (I didn't purchase a CO2 tank yet). Do I bleed it off if I filled too much?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Vlad -

Normally there are fill limits engraved on the inidividual CO2 cylinders which will answer your question. Tim McMurray (a CO2 Guru if there eve was one) instructed me to completely bleed a cylinder to empty before filling. Sound dumb, but Tim's method has proven to be fail safe on my end.

Congrats on the FWB 2 (which I bet is the World Champ you bought recently) ... now start saving for a CPM-1 or CP201 (you'll fall in love with these and sell off everything else - well maybe keep one LP-1C jsut in case).

Merry Christmas

Jim Edmondson

Jim,

Yes, that's one I got. I know there are fill limits on the pistol but my question is how do you know how much you filled? You are weighing the cylinder AFTER you filled and there are no gauges? Are you guestimating how much you filled and then bleed it off if you overfilled?

Thanks,

Vlad

Jim E wrote:Vlad -

Normally there are fill limits engraved on the inidividual CO2 cylinders which will answer your question. Tim McMurray (a CO2 Guru if there eve was one) instructed me to completely bleed a cylinder to empty before filling. Sound dumb, but Tim's method has proven to be fail safe on my end.

Congrats on the FWB 2 (which I bet is the World Champ you bought recently) ... now start saving for a CPM-1 or CP201 (you'll fall in love with these and sell off everything else - well maybe keep one LP-1C jsut in case).

Merry Christmas

Jim Edmondson

Yes a scale is necessary and once you've gone through the filling process a few times this will all makes sense.

Fill the cylinder until gas stops flowing from the large tank to the cylinder - actually I should say liquid, as that is what Co2 is for our use and purpose.

Then remove the cylinder from the filling adapter and weigh it on a postal scale. If it exceeds the maximum for that cylinder - then use the bleed device to let a little Co2 escape. If the cylinder is grossly underweight - fill again. Usually this will not happen if you chilled the cylinder properly - either by releasing a little Co2 from it or placing it in a freezer for a few minutes.

All this sounds much more confusing than it really is. Do it a couple of times and it will be old hat.

I have never shot CA - never saw a reason to "improve???" from Co2.

I have a CP 201 its very nice two for filling i use beer co2 i have lots for spaire though i have to turn the bottle upsidedown there is no dip tube i.Put the cillinders in the frige for 10min then fill with a full bottle of liquid c02 i find i can open up the valve completly count to 10 then close when i waigh the cillinders they are the corecet fill waight i think you will find at 20c° liquid co2 has always the same presser until there is no liquid .Co2 is great easy no fuss not expensive and we dont let more co2 into the inviroment a year than some one who drinks a lt of coke.

I guess you got the pistol back from being serviced, I know you will like it very much. The model 2 is an excellent choice for getting into CO2, a real pleasure to use. I concur with Jim's recommendation on the CPM-1, a definite must-have for you. You should also consider getting a Crosman Skanaker. This pistol really barks and there's a certain fun to a match pistol shooting at 600 fps. In addition the Skanaker is the easiest CO2 gun to fill due to it's unique bleeder valve set-up. I'll try to catch you by phone today or tomorrow. Merry Christmas..... Joe

Vlad,

Your CO2 cylinder(s) will have a tare weight and a maximum weight stamped on the cylinder(s). Your cylinder can be filled with or without a dip tube. Invert the CO2 bottle (if it doesn't have a dip tube) and secure its position in some type of a holder. Freeze your cylinders for approximately two hours prior to filling. Use gloves to handle the cylinders when you remove them from the freezer. Immediately screw your cylinder onto the CO2 bottle (after freezing) and open the valve. You'll notice the condensation disappear from the outside of the cylinder as the warm liquid CO2 enters it. Just close the valve after a few seconds and then weigh the cylinder. If it is too heavy then bleed off the excess. That's all there is to it.

Good luck.

Matt

I'm told there is an easier way. Just attach your cylinder to your large tank and open the valve to let the CO2 enter. Do not chill the cylinder first. You will not fill the cylinder completely but you will have plenty of CO2 to complete a 60 shot match. No weighing, no bleeding off, no overfilling and freezing of seals.
Has anyone ever tried this? By the time I heard of this method I no longer had a CO2 pistol. One day perhaps I'll acquire another one.

Gene

I'm sorry but that will not do the job.

Oh well..... it sounded too good to be true.
But, has anyone ever tried it? I don't remember where I read about it.
Gene

You just don't get a full fill.

If CO2 vaporizes at a constant pressure, varying with temperature, why all the concern with overfilling the cylinders?

The only time I ever overcharged a cylinder was when I chilled it first. I've never run out of CO2 at a match when filled by simply attaching it to a tank at room temperature. I know it isn't filled to capacity, but it doesn't need to be. Full capacity is probably around 200+ shots. I rarely need more than 100 for a match. I top it off before a competition anyway. Why should I concern myself that it isn't all the way to full? (Gun is a Walther CP2.)

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

pgfaini wrote:If CO2 vaporizes at a constant pressure, varying with temperature, why all the concern with overfilling the cylinders?

An overfull cylinder won't shoot properly. The resistance of the cylinder valve will be too high. But, if you use the bleed screw and let some CO2 out ... you'll find that solves the problem.

The ideal fill for an FWB Model 2 ( not junior) pistol cylinder is 53 grams.

Large ( fire extinguisher type ) CO2 bottles with dip tubes to allow liquid carbon dioxide to fill the cylinder are best.

If you have plenty of CO2 , and no time to place your cylinder in the freezer... filling and bleeding several times will freeze your cylinder enough for a good fill .


Elmas

.

pgfaini wrote:If CO2 vaporizes at a constant pressure, varying with temperature, why all the concern with overfilling the cylinders?

You will know WHEN it happens - I too never bothered weighing the cylinder, but in this warmer climate (particularly in summer) I would fill the cylinder, dump the gas to chill the cylinder and refill...

30 years of CO2 without a problem...

... and than twice this year I have ended up with an overfilled cylinder (once at a competition).
Symptom 1 - no pressure to speak of and had to withdraw from the comp - looking at the pistol about a week later (yes it loses pressure slowly) it worked like a charm.
Symptom 2 - no doubt this time, the cylinder seal washer blew when the pistol warmed up on the way to the range! This is a safety feature and I now know that it works.

Life was not meant to be easy

Seasons best wishes to all

Spencer

Spencer wrote:[... and than twice this year I have ended up with an overfilled cylinder (once at a competition).
Symptom 1 - no pressure to speak of and had to withdraw from the comp - looking at the pistol about a week later (yes it loses pressure slowly) it worked like a charm.
Life was not meant to be easy

Seasons best wishes to all

Spencer

Why didn't you try to bleed off the excess CO2 ? With the bleed screw that came with the pistol ? If you did bleed off some gas , you would have not needed to withdraw from the competition...

Elmas

.

with the wisdom of 20/20 hindsight, bleeding off the excess should have been bleedingly obvious, but I had never had any problems of this type before and suspected everything else.

another 10 or 15 sighting shots might well have dropped the CO2 to a proper level, but...

just another item to add to my (vast) collection of cautionary tales

Spencer

Elmos said:

An overfull cylinder won't shoot properly. The resistance of the cylinder valve will be too high. But, if you use the bleed screw and let some CO2 out ... you'll find that solves the problem

The only rwo things I can imagine an overfilled cylinder would do, is not have enough volume of gaseous CO2 to: 1- propell the pellet, or, 2- allow the valve to open, which would require it to compress the gas a bit as it opens Am I understanding this correctly?

The one time I overfilled, as referenced above, was prior to a State Match. I filled a frozen cylinder on a room temperature tank for a Walther CP2. It shot poorly through the entire match. It did not readily display a malfunction, but it might have been dispelling liquid with the gas. I couldn't explain the wide pattern which was also 15 clicks off from my normal zero. I zeroed during the sighting targets, wondering what had gone on - had the gun taken a hard knock during the three-hour trip to the match? It looked fine. Additionally the group was much larger - was I a little unsettled from my three-hour drive? I felt alright and didn't see any excessive movement. I fired the entire match and then asked the director if he could weigh my cylinder. After 70 plus pellets, it was still overcharged!

Since then I've gone back to room temperature filling prior to any outings and I've never run out and never overcharged again. I may not have enough to fire all week, but I have enough for a couple training sessions or matches without worry.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/