TargetTalk

Pgp 75 at 50 yards using CCI ammo. I dont remember how many shots, but they are all on there.

I had a lot of difficulty seeing my front sight. It was getting dark, and my vision wasn't good with thoes glasses. The bottom cluster were my first few, I'm not sure why they are so low. I got new glasses, so I think that should solve many problems.



TIA

What is the question/issue?

Steve

(it is very difficult to "diagnose" anything off of a target in the first place without first knowing quite a bit of other things e.g. who/how were the sights adjusted)

i assume your question is how do I tighten up these groups?

Based on the information you provided, I suggest improving your ability to see the front sight with absolute clarity and then developing the skills to concentrate on sight alignment is the most pressing issue at the moment for you James. These are fundamentals which must be addressed so that you can then focus on things like trigger control, stance, grip etc etc.

I suggest that resolving your vision and sight alignment issues will tighten up your groups significantly and then allow you to move on to those other critical skill sets.

F. Paul in Denver

[quote="F. Paul in Denver"]i assume your question is how do I tighten up these groups?

Based on the information you provided, I suggest improving your ability to see the front sight with absolute clarity and then developing the skills to concentrate on sight alignment is the most pressing issue at the moment for you James. These are fundamentals which must be addressed so that you can then focus on things like trigger control, stance, grip etc etc.

I suggest that resolving your vision and sight alignment issues will tighten up your groups significantly and then allow you to move on to those other critical skill sets.

F. Paul in Denver[/quote]

I would approach the issues from improving you hold with your eye steadily on the sight. A good hold gives you good sight alignment. Do 90% of your drills on a blank target back. Then when using a bullseye target, if your groups open up, turn the target right back around.

One more suggrestion James, the next time you have a spare hour or two - go to:

http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/articlesand.html

Read each of the articles written by Ed Hall and then start incorporating those ideas into your training program. As you progress, I think you will find it helpful to review the articles again in order to put them into the context of what you have learned and experienced.

If I were coaching shooters interested in developing their full potential, none of my shooters would be allowed to even pick up a gun without first reading what Ed has generously provided.

I believe that you will benefit far more by spending time reading this excellent material than using those two hours shooting at this point in your development.

I believe that you were not focusing and aligning your sights properly. you could be grouping anywhere and then somewhere else and all over the place (like your target) the change of light will not help you much either.

I suggest that if you know there was not good light or that your eyeglasses are bad, you should do one of two or a combination.

1- Go to the eye doctor and get new glasses! (something you said you did)

2- go to a different range that has better light or show up earlier at your range so you can shoot in better light!

The fact that you do not know how many shots you took but claim they are all there when there are 25 visible impacts on your target just amazes me :) BTW you misscounted a 5 for an 8.

Hope your new glasses help you!

There is no need to add to the previous posts . The pronlem was covered adaquately and very well. I was concerned that someone woult would come up with if the shot is at seven o'clock its a jerk Amd so on add infinitum. I learned to despise that superficial analisis becaus I felt it was a convenient list of excuses for poor performance and that we should be concentrating on how you shoot a good shot instead. Good work gang and Good Shooting Bill Horton

One other item to consider when you start shooting at fifty yards. Just any ole ammunition will not do. A friend and I have been involved with Ransom rest testing Marvel conversions and model #41's. I have certain lot numbers of CCI that will shoot two inches at fifty yards and I have lot numbers of CCI that will go over five inches out of the same barrel at fifty yards. Switch to SK pistol match and I have some groups that are an inch and a quarter and go up to three inches. I have four barrels for the #41. Everyone of those barrels is a law unto it's self. One lot shoots five inches in one barrel and then will shoot an inch and a half in another. I would suggest that if you want to keep your sanity! Don't buy a Ransom Rest. It tells you things you might not want to know. My friend thought that his 3/4 inch test button was what his Marvel would shoot at fifty yards. After five or more different brands and price levels and lot numbers. He isn't close to 3/4" inch groups. I had a Morini Free pistol that came with an almost one hole fifty meter test target. Care to guess how much money you would spend and time to find that magic lot number? I have only seen one pistol shoot a 3/4" group at fifty yards and that was an old Hi-Standard and that was sfter testing 10 different lots of Eley Ten-X. Some of that Ten-X shot groups that were in the four inch plus size. Just think that at todays prices you spent close to $1,500 for a case of Ten-x or Midas L-M and it shot five inch groups. Sorry, I think I got off topic a wee bit.

In close to 25 years on the competition firing line it never occurred to me to test my 22. Could that be the reason why my 22 scores were always lower than center fire and 45 ?For years I put the blame on the smaller bullet thinking that I was getting higher scores because of more scratches with the larger bullits. I was extremely careful about testing the center fire and 45 guns several times during the competition season and never thought about the 22. Mr Lane, thank you very much. Good shooting Bill Horton

oh yes, I don't know about the pistol guys, but a lot of the top rifle shooters over here will go to the Eley factory in Birmingham once a year to batch test - take the barrel out the stock, bed it into their test rig on their 50m indoor customer range, try a load of different batches and buy like, 6000+ rounds of the batch that works best in your barrel - enough to last you a year or so till you go back again.
It may be different for pistols - I suppose with shorter barrels than rifles, you may get larger variations between good and bad batches, but for rifle, it's really not worth the expense of batch testing till you get to the very upper echelons of shooting.
Bit off-topic, but just saying batch testing is fairly standard procedure for some, not some weird and wonderful occult practice!