TargetTalk

Would like to give it a try.Whats hot? Whats not? Thanks Ron

Can't go wrong with a Walther GSP , lots on the secondary market , lots of parts . Very reliable , has the potential to take you to the top . With a good used one , you will always be able to get your money out of it .

Chris

I love my Pardini. It is an older model, purchased over 20 years ago, but I have had no problems. Several thousand rounds through it this summer with perhaps 4-5 failures to feed. With all the SP New models now appearing, you might be able to pick up a used SP for a reasonable price. Or go for a new model with electronic trigger, if your bank account will stand it. :-)

The IZH offers the most 'bang for the buck'. These come up for sale periodically for ~$500. Not as refined as the Pardini, but mine has been very reliable. Doesn't look like much, but often seen at the major international matches.

As you have read so many times here on TT, you really need to try before you buy. These guns all feel different in the hand, and the triggers are all different.

I agree with Fred's comments. If you're on a budget, I'd give serious thought to a Baikal IZH35. A fair number of shooters out here in WA use it and seem to like it. It's a European-style target and definitely appears to be way more gun for less money than, say, a S&W Model 41.

But if you afford it, the Pardini is, as Fred said, a truly wonderful gun. I have 4 Pardinis, which I think qualifies me as a true Pardini nut: an SP set up for NRA BE with an Aimpoint, an SP New for international rules, an HP (from which I just removed an Aimpoint so I can use it for CF) and a K22 free pistol. I love them all. Great triggers, very reliable, very accurate and very easy to strip and clean.

Finally, I agree with Fred's final remark, which is that, if you can, it's definitely worth trying to find someone who has the gun you're considering and is willing to let you try it before you buy. Even if it's a full day's drive round-trip, I would do it. It's best if you can actually fire it, but at least dry-fire enough to get a sense of what the gun is like.

If you've got the money, the Feinwerkbau AW-93 is getting more popular. It is solid, acurrate, adjustable and I expect it to be made for a long time. Brenzovich is importing them (no connection).

All of the other pistols mentioned are good.

If you want to just give it a try, shoot what you've got or can borrow. Most Rugers will shoot as accurately as the match guns, but they might not be as comfortable and can't easily be adjusted to you.

Steve T

Try everything you can get your hands on. Check your possible sources for spare parts. Get whatever fits you well (ignore the grip, they are made of wood so they can be altered, but check for grip angle, trigger position and weight distribution) and doesn't get you in trouble when something breaks. Ignore any recommendation not based on objective criteria. Just because somebody shoots well with something doesn't mean you will. There are people out there who can shoot 590 with a rusty pipe. Do not blindly emulate anything you've seen somebody else do, especially not some guy on a ISSF video, always ask for their reasons why they do it that way. You don't get an answer, ignore it. You get an answer, weigh it against all the other stuff you hear. Read targettalk, but for facts, not for opinions. Do not spend 2'500 bucks on your first gun. You don't know what your looking for, start cheap, practice good technique, update when you are ready and your know-how allows for good evaluation.

Thanks for your info I went and bought a new Ruger Mark III Hunter .Will see how things go.Not a bad price $450 so its affordable to try.Looks kinda purty! Will keep my eyes open for some of your TT sales.

That's a little high for that gun -- they come and go for as little as $250, new, on Gunsamerica.com (though you'd need to add shipping and FFL transfer) -- but there are certainly a lot of folks who start with that gun and like it so much they never even think about anything else. Biggest difficulty new shooters tend to have with the Ruger is learning how to reassemble it after stripping it for cleaning. But if you can get over that hump, you should be quite pleased.

Happy shooting!

Nicole Hamilton wrote:That's a little high for that gun -- they come and go for as little as $250, new, on Gunsamerica.com (though you'd need to add shipping and FFL transfer) -- but there are certainly a lot of folks who start with that gun and like it so much they never even think about anything else. Biggest difficulty new shooters tend to have with the Ruger is learning how to reassemble it after stripping it for cleaning. But if you can get over that hump, you should be quite pleased.

Happy shooting!

Hi Nicole, the first Mark III I saw on the link was for $449.00 so he did O.K. Rugers are good guns, pain to put back together, and the trigger is a pain. After it's broken in, you may want to send it off to have a trigger job done on it, or just buy some of Volquartsen't triggers. Personally, I'd go with the parts since just shipping a handgun is $40.00 each way.

Mike
Wichita KS

mikeschroeder wrote:Hi Nicole, the first Mark III I saw on the link was for $449.00 so he did O.K.

I hope you don't usually buy the first gun you see. :) When buying a gun, especially a popular gun like the Mark III where you know there have to be zillions in circulation, meaning they come and go all the time, it's important to do some research, comparison shop and be a little patient 'till the right deal comes along. In this case, all it takes is reading a little further down the page. There's one at $280, another on the second page at $250 and one more at $255. All of these are new. It looks like it's gone now, but yesterday, there was one even cheaper, $235, I think.

It's kind of sad, but it seems like there are a lot of dealers who make a practice of taking advantage of new shooters. Maybe they expect most people only buy one gun, never do any shooting and won't ever be back anyway, so they should get it while they can. I remember discovering -- a couple months later, of course -- how much I'd overpaid for the first two guns I bought, a S&W 22A and a used Glock 19. The 22A was 'sort of' reasonable but the Glock was about $100 more than a new one! This seems to happen especially with popular guns that new shooters may have heard of but don't really know anything about.

But I do expect you're right about the Volquartsen trigger. I put one in a 10/22 rifle (yet another gun I bought before I got a clue :) a few years ago, there was nothing to it and it definitely was a better trigger than what came on the gun.

In new Jersey buying a gun is a trip to begin with.Buying one on the internet and shipping to New Jersey is another trip and more money as you have to pay a dealer in NJ to get it for you usually 50 - 100 dollars more. I have seen the hunter mark III Ruger for 585 so I thought 449 was fair. Ron

darticus wrote:... you have to pay a dealer in NJ to get it for you usually 50 - 100 dollars more.

Oh, my! That's way too much. I'm not sure where you live in NJ, but do a search of the Gunsamerica Transfer Dealers. For example, in area code 609, there are two dealers that charge $15 and one that charges only $5. In 732, there are a couple that charge $10, and so on. Paying $50 or more or a percentage of the sales price (as some dealers ask) is a ripoff. Don't do it. Go elsewhere.

Hi,

All this is very interesting - I'll be looking for my first ISSF pistol soon. Problem is, I'm in New Zealand. Not exactly the back of beyond (we have TV and the internet and sheep for entertainment), but very few gun dealers importing target pistols (and they are a 'plane flight away), and a small second-hand market. Walther, Pardini, FWB easily available. Not easy to find one to try, even in local club with 200+ members. Only a minority of club members interested in ISSF.

Please keep the advice coming.

another guest wrote:.... local club with 200+ members. Only a minority of club members interested in ISSF...

Just curious - what types of shooting are most popular in NZ?

In reply, cant speak with authority, being a recent immigrant to NZ, but the local pistol club offers ISSF, IPSC, Cowboy Action (don't ask!), air pistol and black powder. IPSC seems to be most popular.

Small-bore rifle prone indoor 25yd target very popular, outdoor 50 yd and 3-position less so. Full-bore also has a moderate following.

In addition to which, it's a beautiful country with friendly natives.

Fred Mannis wrote:
Just curious - what types of shooting are most popular in NZ?

In no particular order...

Deer shooting
Duck shooting
Pig shooting
Swan shooting
Wallaby shooting
Rabbit shooting
Opposum shooting
Goat shooting...

:)

It's such a hunter's paradise that target shooting will always play second-fiddle.

as a walther gsp owner, here are some things to consider if you plan on purchasing one...........

things i like:
1) outstanding quality
2) the trigger is great. lots of adjustment. not a crisp break but more of a rolling break
3) it will cycle anything you feed it
4) it is silly accurate. the factory test target is a 5 shot group that is 1/4" at 25 meters
5) easy to strip and clean

things i do not like:
1)the pre-gsp expert series has its rear sight located inline with the trigger gaurd. i prefer it to be located farther back
2) the rear sight blade is too small and offers a less than desirable sight picture for my eyes
3) if you need to bottom the rear sight, there is a small channel machined into the sight for the adjustment screw. if you are adjusted all the way down, part of that channel is visible in the sight picture. its kind of annoying.
4) the rear sight is adjustable for notch width only by changing the sight blade itself
5) the balance is nose heavy. really nose heavy

after handling a fwb aw93, i found that pistol to be better balanced than the gsp and it offers a much nicer sight picture imo. i plan on purchasing one myself.

Someone telling about the S&W Model 41.Does this fit into this class?Ron

In general the S&W 41 would be placed above a Ruger, Browning Buckmark etc, but below the Walther, Hammerli, FWB, Pardini and Matchguns both in price and in suitability.

It is a fine gun, if it works properly. There are a lot of them out there that reliably shoot great scores (primarily in NRA Bullseye), but they also have a reputation for being finicky. If you get a bad one, it can be made to shoot, but it may take some work. If you can buy it from a reliable source and shoot it to verify functionality, then it is a pretty good choice.

Steve Turner

SteveT wrote:In general the S&W 41 would be placed above a Ruger, Browning Buckmark etc, but below the Walther, Hammerli, FWB, Pardini and Matchguns both in price and in suitability. ... they also have a reputation for being finicky.

I agree with the first part, but not so much with the second. My experience is that S&W .22 semiautos like the 22A and 41 like CCI but hate Federal. (Guess what brand ammo they use at the factory for acceptance testing? :) If you try shooting Federal, you will have a very frustrating experience with one failure to feed or failure to eject after another. Switch to CCI and you'll go thousands of rounds without ever having a problem.

Otoh, this is not uncommon. A lot of guns, including a lot of very expensive guns, are very finicky. When I first got my Pardini, I tried shooting CCI (since I had so much of it left over from shooting in my 22A) and had one problem after another with it, 'till I switched to Federal. Since then, no problems in the Pardini.

But, returning to your first point, I agree with the rest of your assessment of the 41. It's popular in NRA BE circles, but I'm not really sure why, except maybe just that it's a crowd where there's less awareness of "funny-looking" European target guns. The 41, with only a single-stage trigger, utterly underwhelming grip and sights, and a $900 (or thereabouts) price, is, I think, a poor choice for either NRA or international competition. It's too expensive to be an entry-level gun and it doesn't offer enough (in either features or savings) to be competitive with any of the European guns for anyone ready to move up.