TargetTalk

"Devi adattare te stesso alla pistola, e non la pistola a te stesso". It is an Italian old saying. More or less it sounds like "Adjust yourself to the pistol, and not the pistol to yourself". Is there anything like that in US/ UK/ OZ/ NZ/ etc. ? Btw, I do not understand well that old saying, it seems wrong to me, or am I stupid?
There is another one, but this is well known. "Il buon colpo deve costituire una sorpesa". "The good shot is a surprise", or something like that. Once more I do not understand it completely. It is a 'surprise' because it comes *too soon*? It is a 'surprise' because the shot release is a *subconscious* process? Or because of both? Sometimes the first, sometimes the second?
There is another .... well, better to stop it here :-)
s.

scerir wrote:"Devi adattare te stesso alla pistola, e non la pistola a te stesso". It is an Italian old saying. More or less it sounds like "Adjust yourself to the pistol, and not the pistol to yourself". Is there anything like that in US/ UK/ OZ/ NZ/ etc. ? Btw, I do not understand well that old saying, it seems wrong to me, or am I stupid?
There is another one, but this is well known. "Il buon colpo deve costituire una sorpesa". "The good shot is a surprise", or something like that. Once more I do not understand it completely. It is a 'surprise' because it comes *too soon*? It is a 'surprise' because the shot release is a *subconscious* process? Or because of both? Sometimes the first, sometimes the second?
There is another .... well, better to stop it here :-)
s.

We have an old saying - 'a picture is worth a thousand words', or more relevant here - a mental picture is worth a thousand words.' Words often seem to get in the way of reality :-)

Fred

Fred Mannis wrote: Words often seem to get in the way of reality :-)

Yes, sometimes I also think that pistol shooting is the domain of 'qualia', unspeakable concepts and subjective perceptions :-)
s.

It is completely off topic here .... but it seems nice ...
"Vive-nos a vida, não nós a vida"
["Life lives us, not the other way around"]
- Fernando Pessoa

scerir wrote:"Devi adattare te stesso alla pistola, e non la pistola a te stesso". It is an Italian old saying. More or less it sounds like "Adjust yourself to the pistol, and not the pistol to yourself".

Btw, I do not understand well that old saying, it seems wrong to me, or am I stupid?


There is another one, but this is well known. "Il buon colpo deve costituire una sorpesa". "The good shot is a surprise", or something like that. Once more I do not understand it completely. It is a 'surprise' because it comes *too soon*? It is a 'surprise' because the shot release is a *subconscious* process? Or because of both? Sometimes the first, sometimes the second?
s.

Adjust yourself to the pistol does not seem wrong to me at all....It seems perfectly natural and right !! It is also a very good generalization . For we are by nature lazy beings... we hate to make an effort , we hate the effort to change , to accomodate others , we prefer to accomodate the world to ourselves !

So , one should'nt take a file to the grip and skew it a bit just because we are not gripping the pistol correctly ... We should'nt play with the trigger making it too crisp.. because we are unwilling to apply steady pressure to a rolling trigger etc....


A good shot is a surprise because it was not snatched... it was the result of constant progressive trigger pressure as our attention was focussed on the front sight as it should.... and the pistol did not move out of the aiming area as the shot was fired as we held steady for follow through... in fact, we can call the shot with amazing accuracy even though the target was not in focus.

Or... on a lighter note..... a good shot is a surprise simply because ( bad shooters that we are ) we are so used to fliers and eights and worse... so when a ten comes along its a surprise !!


/

Elmas wrote: Or... on a lighter note..... a good shot is a surprise simply because ( bad shooters that we are ) we are so used to fliers and eights and worse... so when a ten comes along its a surprise !!

/

Speak for yourself ;-)

Rob.

Elmas wrote: Adjust yourself to the pistol does not seem wrong to me at all.... It seems perfectly natural and right !! /

Maybe :-) After years and years of trials and errors, with my Pardini K2, I've found the perfect balance and the perfect weight of the pistol. Which is ... the original one!

Elmas wrote: A good shot is a surprise because it was not snatched... it was the result of constant progressive trigger pressure as our attention was focussed on the front sight as it should.... /

Yes, I experience this kind of surprises. Often they are good, but sometimes they are also bad. I also experience another kind of surprise, when the shot breaks too soon. (There is a good shooter, I mean over 580/600, who told me he did not experience any kind of surprise, necer).

Yes, I experience this kind of surprises. Often they are good, but sometimes they are also bad. I also experience another kind of surprise, when the shot breaks too soon. (There is a good shooter, I mean over 580/600, who told me he did not experience any kind of surprise, necer).

As for the good shooter who shoots 580/600 who did not experience any kind of surprise.... I'm sure there must be some explanation... Shooting is sooo subjective , and we're all different , maybe he could shoot so well consistently with a very short timed trigger pull..

Those of us who tend to be surprised by the shot are the ones who apply progressive trigger pressure and wait for the shot to surprise them... takes all kinds.


.

Elmas wrote:As for the good shooter who shoots 580/600 who did not experience any kind of surprise.... I'm sure there must be some explanation...

There is. Why should you be surprised by a shot that breaks within the time frame you have trained for. The fact that you do not know exactly when it is going to break does not mean that you are surprised when it happens.

You should only be surprised if it breaks outside of the time frame you have trained for, for example before you have reached your normal aiming area.

David Levene wrote: Why should you be surprised by a shot that breaks within the time frame you have trained for. The fact that you do not know exactly when it is going to break does not mean that you are surprised when it happens.

It seems a good step. 'Surprise' may have a 'contextual' (or 'intensional') meaning. Also 'not decide the shot' may have a 'contextual' meaning, since - even subconsciously - one has to pull the trigger, at a certain point.

It is perhaps interesting to say here (unfortunately I'm not so 'tonguish' in English so ...) that the same good shooter who told me he did not experience that 'surprise' has a very 'rocky' stance, so that the total time he uses to keep the sights aligned and release the shot is very very long. This may have something to do with the 'surprise' factor, in his case. I also remember that he told me, many times, to train myself for very prolonged sightings and shot release times. This exercise was - according to him - very useful (even if the arm was trembling a bit, and the eye was defocusing, and the lungs collapsing) because it was a sort of 'edging' between the conscious shooting and the subconscious shooting. (Needless to say I did not follow his advice, and I'm not trained to overcome the stess, when the shot does not break soon).

"I believe in dragons, in volunteer approach to international
level sports shooting success, and other fairy tales that will secure
a 2008 USA Olympic Victory in Olympic Pistol Shooting."

Perhaps the surprise is because the shooter has been so busy concentrating on the sights that he has forgotten to trip over his own feet getting the shot away.

David's point about not really being surprised when the shot breaks at about the time you trained for is good, but I'm not sure real matches always work out like that. In the ancient past before electronic targets, I once sat behind Ragnar Skanaker while he was shooting a Nordic air pistol championship. Having nothing better to do, I started timing his shots. He was shooting at either seven point something or eleven point something seconds, and it didn't seem to make any difference to the (high) score level. Then he seemed to be having a problem with a shot. I was sitting there willing him to put the pistol down the way everyone is taught, but he shot at 28.4 seconds after raising the pistol. I anxiously scanned the returning target for a snatched shot or a heel or some other total catastrophy, but he'd actually put it inside the X ring. I marvelled at his luck, but about ten shots later he did a repeat performance, again with the shot well inside the ten ring. The third time he did it, I decided to stop timing.

I think scerir may have a point about qualia.

Do you gentlemen have any other good Italian sayings about pistol shooting?

From my mother:"Take this and kill that damn groundhog!"

Jim wrote: Do you gentlemen have any other good Italian sayings about pistol shooting?

I'm elaborating my own Italian saying, about 'follow through', but it still needs some polishing! It sounds like a Zen koan: "Sta lì fermo come una statua di marmo fin quando il bersaglio non ti rispara la stessa pallottola direttamente nella canna della tua pistola". More or less it means: "Stay there, as a marble statue, untill the target re-shoots the same pellet into the barrel of your pistol". Sometimes it works.

There are several old Italian sayings. One says: "Do not forget to pull the trigger". The hidden meaning should be that ... often we stop pulling the trigger, but we do not even realize that.

Another says: "Si spara anche con i piedi". "Also your feet shoot". (I always thought it was directed to rifle shooters, but I'm wrong perhaps).
This may have something to do with what Di Donna told me once. Before each shot I try to relax everything: hands, arms, shoulders, legs, knees, feet. But one at a time, not all together.

What's wrong with Olympic Pistol in US? Let's fix that!!!!

http://www.thebitchgirls.us/archives/003901.html

...."We should have people at the top of that particular award chart because we have the freedom and we love it.".....



...., there are no medals awarded to the US. Look at the countries listed. The top is China. Hardly a country with the freedom for the average Joe to own firearms and practice the shooting sports. There are 17 events, and I want to see some American flags on that page.

No, I don't think that we need to be top at everything. We don't rule the freakin world, but we are the only country that has a 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. We should have people at the top of that particular award chart because we have the freedom and we love it.

Numbers vary, but let's go with the low side of 60 million gun owners in the US and we can't get one shooting medal so far. Let's fix that!!!!

[quote="Barbara"]

http://www.thebitchgirls.us/archives/003901.html

/quote]

Read the BB, and the comments there mirror the many remarks posted here. I do agree with one comment to the effect that the elimination of small bore rifle in many/most public schools and colleges has led to a significant decrease in the number of boys and girls interested in the shooting sports.