TargetTalk

Ok fellow shooters! Certainly someone in the International shooting sports has bought one or shot one or smelled one. I haven't seen anyone shooting one in the World Cup videos or any other event. I wish Nicole would buy one so we could get a report like the one she did on the Pardini Free pistol. Waiting to hear if the top loader is going to work.

I've seen one in a case in a gunshop - buy afraid that's the closest I've been. I'd be suprised if 'no-one' is shooting one on the international circuit, surely there must be at least one out there ?

Rob.

Lane wrote:Waiting to hear if the top loader is going to work.

Why shouldn't it? Top loading has been used by other manufacturers without a problem.

The reason for the top loader comment is that several people on this board bought up potential problems that have plagued top loaders. I have read other comments on this board and others that Walther has done a great job of getting this gun out into the hands of real users. The problems should be worked out. No consumer engineering.

My post was not to condem the SSP, but to get some feed back as to how people that have bought the gun and had access to it are doing with it. It has been on the market now for awhile and their should be some good field reports available.

A well known Walther Importer had reservations about top loading (he didn't want to be deluged with feeding problem calls) and suggested that my friend and I wait to be sure it was going to work before we plunked down the money. This was four months ago. My friend and I are waiting to hear what other people are experiencing.

They are supposedly here stateside and some have apparently bought the gun, but as you said---we haven't heard a peep in months after the original furor. I can understand the hesitancy regarding a "new" gun as the SSP. Having owned a Domino (FAS) top loader, it was somewhat fussy about ammo but a good gun nontheless. I feel that people are still stinging and reeling backwards from the Matchguns (Morini?????) MG-2 fiasco. Realistically some people claim that their guns were working perfectly (???), but to the disadvantage many more seemed to have invested in a very expensive tack hammer. I think it is this and some early reports plus a nearly $2000 investment has made people even more hesitant to plunk down this sort of money. Additionally, the US Bullseye market is also hesitant re: top loading and the question as to dot-sight placement.

Can anyone explain to me why a top loading magazine should be any more troublesome than a base loader.

The top of the magazine can be in exactly the same place in both, it can be exactly the same shape in both, have exactly the same feed angle in both, can contact the moving parts in exactly the same way in both and no additional parts are required for feeding.


Perhaps some people are confusing a top loading magazine with the system used in the MG2. They are totally different.

Back in July, at the Canadian Pistol Championships (ISSF and Conventional Pistol), I saw two Walther SSP pistols. I got to handle, but not shoot, one of them (the other had been sold and was not available for handling). I also watched a female junior shooter use the gun in competition (can't remember if it was Sport Pistol or Standard Pistol). She said it was fine to shoot but did not expand upon that. I suspect she has not experienced a great enough variety of pistols in her relatively short career as a shooter to make a more meaningful comparison. It worked for her - end of story.
I have owned four top-loading pistols and although I have had issues with each, none were related to the top-loading feature. On the positive side, the absence of a magazine well extending out the bottom of the grip has allowed a grip shape, particularly at the base of the grip, that fits my hand configuration very well. In that respect, I found the stock grip on the SSP to be very much to my liking
The gun is pricey (more than an FWB AW93), at least in Canada. If one considers the optional package, with its bigger case, extra weights, and accessories, then you are into the price range of IPSC "race guns" - a heady atmosphere for my pocketbook :-(
The SSPs I saw were imported by Illingworth Imports (located in Saskatchewan).
Mike T.

A guy in our club has one, so I've shot it some. I'm not going to buy it, and not only because of the price tag. It seems to work ok, haven't seen a malfunction yet, but I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the much hyped recoil management. Pistol's extremely light, so that may be the explanation, but as it is, the thing jumps even more than my 607 and far more than the MG2 or the 102E. Factory grip doesn't fit me at all, but that's no surprise with a Walther. Seems to be very well made, though. Some nice details, even a bit overengineered. All in all, I think it may be a great basis for high level experimenting, as many features one would have to customize on other pistols are already included and the basic ingredients for a top RFP are there, but of course that would be a time and money intensive project, which are the two scarcest of my resources.

I have handled one, but did Not shoot with it.
Most of my pistols are Walthers, and I have had that brand of gun for most of my shooting life.

This new model, - to my way of thinking, is not that special. However, I have been told that the Chinese have received 400 of them for evaluation.

As I don't speak Chinese, and they don't speak Hungarian! I have not found out what they think of them.

I feel it is Over manufactured. The grip is OK. It is a Moroni grip, I think, and I have heard that the recoil plug needs to be cleaned after every 5000 rounds. It can be adjusted to varying ammunitions.

For me - I found it lighter than the early model SK, and a bit heavier than my old Walthers.
I would not go out and buy the gun - yet. I would wait to see how it works out first.

Alex L.

Have seen the gun in use only one time in the ISSF competition, by a shooter from Finland.

http://www.issf.tv/media/video/2006/630 ... 401rfp.wmv

Apart from this mostly rumors. If the Chinese have received 400 of these guns, none of them have been selected by their top-level compatitors, which remain an exclusive Pardini bunch.

Cheers,
Bob

Rapid2
I think the Fin uses a Tesro, not the SSP

Regards
Tor Ingvaldsen

Tesro indeed. And he is also using Tesros new recoil dampening system.

Btw, Ralf Shumanns barrel weight is something else than just a standard Pardini weight... Anyone got more information? Will his prototype ever get into production? Off topic, I know! :-)

I personally feel that the lid will remain closed on Pardini's "New RF Gun" until just prior to the Baeijing Olympics. Schumann has always been very innovative with his RF pistols, though I found the old Schumann to be "clunky", of course neither do I expend 250,000 rounds in practise per year as Ralf. The Finnish pistol is a TESRO and not an SSP. Dave and I agree that the top-loading feature is neither a sine qua non nor a disadvantage, specially if you have ever shot FAS or Domino guns, it's just a variation on a theme not the wild departure (IMHO) as with the MG-2---which was "wild" in it's departure from what we have become accustomed to. Imagine the first people that looked at a Pardini or Walther with the mags in front of the trigger. It's like ----what was the guy thinking when he ate the first oyster????

The SSP I tried seemed very light and had minimal recoil for such a light gun.

I prefer a more upright grip, and the slide hold open would take some getting used to.

Otherwise it seemed to work well

Like Mike T., I had an opportunity to handle but not shoot the SSP this summer. To say I was 'underwhelmed' by it would be kind. It's price point is excruciatingly high. And it doesn't seem to offer much in terms of extra value for the extra money.

I personally see no potential problems with the top-loading, save perhaps for a slight chance of increased difficulty in removing the magazine should it get stuck. But that's not a likely occurance. The top loading feature gives the pistol a nice grip angle.

My main problems with the pistol were with its plastic grip (YUCK!) and its trigger (Double-YUCK!). Walther has let their 'military/police' side of the design house influence them too much in the design of both the grip and trigger. Put some wood on the grip so we can modify it to suit our hands.

And for goodness sake, stop with the trigger pull that's as long as a wet Sunday. BTW, you have to let the trigger come all the way forward to re-engage for the second shot, unlike the Pardini and MG-2 which require the trigger only to move forward to the beginning of the 2nd stage. I've had several people tell me there was no way my MG-2 triggers would lift the 1000 gram weight, and yet they do so easily. By comparison, there were several experienced shooters (ok, about half our national team) in the room when the SSP was taken out of the box, and the trigger was almost universally disliked, and most commented on how heavy it felt.

Walther quality was clearly evident in the pistol. But I can't see how that quality makes the gun worth 40% more than its competitors.

Sorry, but I'll not be purchasing a new Walther any time soon.

Mark noted:
"My main problems with the pistol were with its plastic grip (YUCK!) and its trigger ....."
I confess I did not care for the appearance of the grip (although I liked the feel) which looks like it is coated with silvery-grey sand. However, Scott Illingworth, the Walther dealer, who brought the guns to the Nationals, told me that beneath the surface coating, the grip is actually wood, and that it can be carved (or built up) and then recoated with the special coating material available from Walther.
I seem to recall, although I could be mistaken on this, that the optional, deluxe SSP kit (the one with the large case, extra weights , and accessories) included a jar of this special "paint" (for lack of a better term).
Mike T.

If you look at how successful the muzzle heavy pistols are you have to ask yourself why Walther would commit suicide with the SSP's neutral balance and upright grip?

I too have tried one and think it is inferior to the Pardini, Tesro or Morini!

There is a selection of weights available to fit on a rail underneath the front portion of the barrel. I expect one could make the pistol as muzzle heavy as one wants.
Mike T.

If you look at how successful the muzzle heavy pistols are you have to ask yourself why Walther would commit suicide with the SSP's neutral balance and upright grip?

Personally I don't think muzzle heavy pistols give any advantage, quite the opposite.

But doubtless you can add weights if thats what you want.

Personally I don't think muzzle heavy pistols give any advantage, quite the opposite

Take a look at the winners pics on the ISSF website and you might change you mind.

A muzzle heavy pistol reduces the "flip" part of the recoil and lessens the effect of any "less than perfect" trigger pulling.

Take a look at golf club technology, all the mass is around the edge of the club face, peripheral weighting I think it's called.

The further you place the mass from the pivot point (in our case the wrist) the more effert it take to rotate it about that point.

This is one of the reasons that the Hammerli 230 series of RF pistols were such a failure (and the fact that they were malfunction prone).

And, before you all say that you shouldn't need that, you should note that even the Schumanns of this world snatch a few, particually in 4 seconds.