I've been shooting for almost a year, I hope it's not too late to switch.
Should I just move my sight up a few clicks, then leave a white gap, then start shooting and zeroing in my sights?
how do you switch from 6:00 hold to sub six?
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In a word, yes!Should I just move my sight up a few clicks, then leave a white gap, then start shooting and zeroing in my sights?
The hard part after shooting six-o'clock (been there myself!) is losing the need to control exactly how much white you see below the bull: there is in fact a pretty large variation that still sees you into the ten-ring.
-David
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Guest
i shot 6 oclock for around 4 years before switching to a sub six a few months back. took some effort but it was well worth it.
in the beginning i would go back to the sub six whenever i was under pressure or focused too deeply on aligning the sights. to combat this i did a few sessions where all i shot was the white side of the card. the aim area of course would corrospond on the sub six region. once i got back a grouping as good as when i shoot the black side, i started shooting the black again. within the next 3 sessions i got the hang of it. now my grouping is smaller and much more consistent with less variation between training sessions.
in the beginning i would go back to the sub six whenever i was under pressure or focused too deeply on aligning the sights. to combat this i did a few sessions where all i shot was the white side of the card. the aim area of course would corrospond on the sub six region. once i got back a grouping as good as when i shoot the black side, i started shooting the black again. within the next 3 sessions i got the hang of it. now my grouping is smaller and much more consistent with less variation between training sessions.
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Steve Swartz
Pretty much all there is to it!
As long as you are fiddling with your sights, might I offer another suggestion. Make sure you have enough white space on either side of your front sight.
I have a front sight that is visually equal to the width of the aiming bull. Call that distance "1" then what I use for "white space" is 1/3 to 1/2 EQUAL on sides and top.
Your brain will recognize the pattern of equally spaced light/dark bands fairly quickly.
To speed the process, whip up a graphic sith fuzzy circle, very sharp front sight rectangle, and slightly fuzzy rear sights. Then print it on a playing card sized piece of paper. Stare at this visula image while thinking about perfect trigger control . . . this will jump start the process a bit.
Steve Swartz
As long as you are fiddling with your sights, might I offer another suggestion. Make sure you have enough white space on either side of your front sight.
I have a front sight that is visually equal to the width of the aiming bull. Call that distance "1" then what I use for "white space" is 1/3 to 1/2 EQUAL on sides and top.
Your brain will recognize the pattern of equally spaced light/dark bands fairly quickly.
To speed the process, whip up a graphic sith fuzzy circle, very sharp front sight rectangle, and slightly fuzzy rear sights. Then print it on a playing card sized piece of paper. Stare at this visula image while thinking about perfect trigger control . . . this will jump start the process a bit.
Steve Swartz
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Steve Swartz
Sorry for the typos (for you Star Wars fans, there is no such thing as a Sith Fuzzy Circle as far as I know!).
Forgot to mention something really important- as previously mentioned-
- DON'T try to "line everything up just right" when shooting
- DO focus on crisp, sharp front sight
- DO focus mentally on aligning front sight with rear sight
- ACCEPT your wobble (as long as it's reasonably settled) see first point
Forgot to mention something really important- as previously mentioned-
- DON'T try to "line everything up just right" when shooting
- DO focus on crisp, sharp front sight
- DO focus mentally on aligning front sight with rear sight
- ACCEPT your wobble (as long as it's reasonably settled) see first point
have read with interest.....and affirm!
Steve,
I have followed your posts with interest....especially the emphasis on sight alignment/trigger work and the power of "accepting" the function of the subconscious to perform what it has trained to do. While, as you describe, the process runs counter-intuitive, the results prove the effort. My last match surely was no personal best, but for me, the truly positive outcome was that I didn't fall apart "when the wheels and the wagon parted company". What got me back on track was reigning in the wandering mind, quelling the internal conversation and determining to trust that I knew what to do to execute. Several consecutive 10's followed that. It works! My goal at this point demands that I find a method to attain and maintain that mental state consistently for 60 shots. My blank card practice has enhanced the progress....more coming. This is my $.02 and I just wanted to let other readers know that you are not blowing smoke.
CraigE
I have followed your posts with interest....especially the emphasis on sight alignment/trigger work and the power of "accepting" the function of the subconscious to perform what it has trained to do. While, as you describe, the process runs counter-intuitive, the results prove the effort. My last match surely was no personal best, but for me, the truly positive outcome was that I didn't fall apart "when the wheels and the wagon parted company". What got me back on track was reigning in the wandering mind, quelling the internal conversation and determining to trust that I knew what to do to execute. Several consecutive 10's followed that. It works! My goal at this point demands that I find a method to attain and maintain that mental state consistently for 60 shots. My blank card practice has enhanced the progress....more coming. This is my $.02 and I just wanted to let other readers know that you are not blowing smoke.
CraigE
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: how do you switch from 6:00 hold to sub six?
James,James wrote:I've been shooting for almost a year, I hope it's not too late to switch.
Should I just move my sight up a few clicks, then leave a white gap, then start shooting and zeroing in my sights?
I found this modified Edelmann #2805 target of help when establishing a sub 6 hold. The simple horizontal 'bull' helped to develop a mental image of the three white 'lines' around the front sight. I found it easy to bring up that image when I go back to a real bullseye.
I also find this target useful for some exercises. In this not particularly good 30 shot target, I've been working to correct a slight twitch I've developed in my trigger release. Obviously more work needs to be done here. :-)
Hope this is of some help
Fred
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Steve Swartz
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Steve Swartz
Well, there's "natural" and then there's natural.
1) Natural point of aim is trained
2) Natural point of aim does not equal natural pointing (which includes 'natural grip')
I 1) I have trained my "natural point of aim" to be almost completely closed (facing target) to beyond open (back to target). The definition of NPA must include "that stance which creates conditions for optimal settle in aiming area and relaxed, repeatable approaches to same." This is probably different from what a lot of other authorities define as "NPA."
I 2) A truly "natural" *grip* (not, however, the same thing as point of aim) for most people is around a 45 degree angle. Is a "natural" (ie, 45 degree cant) a "good thing?" No, of course not. As long as you are not experiencing discomfort and/or muscular duress for the 10 seconds to break the shot* no cant is probably a better thing than cant. For at least a couple of reasons.
I mean think about this whole "natural" thing: the "natural" human stance is slouching around with your hands azt your sides. A good shooting stance?
Steve Swartz
*my wife shattered her forearm and cannot comfortably hold pistol straight up and down.
1) Natural point of aim is trained
2) Natural point of aim does not equal natural pointing (which includes 'natural grip')
I 1) I have trained my "natural point of aim" to be almost completely closed (facing target) to beyond open (back to target). The definition of NPA must include "that stance which creates conditions for optimal settle in aiming area and relaxed, repeatable approaches to same." This is probably different from what a lot of other authorities define as "NPA."
I 2) A truly "natural" *grip* (not, however, the same thing as point of aim) for most people is around a 45 degree angle. Is a "natural" (ie, 45 degree cant) a "good thing?" No, of course not. As long as you are not experiencing discomfort and/or muscular duress for the 10 seconds to break the shot* no cant is probably a better thing than cant. For at least a couple of reasons.
I mean think about this whole "natural" thing: the "natural" human stance is slouching around with your hands azt your sides. A good shooting stance?
Steve Swartz
*my wife shattered her forearm and cannot comfortably hold pistol straight up and down.
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Steve Swartz
James:
To toss in a bit more explanification (ran out of time yesterday) think about the "physiology" of a canted grip vs. straight up grip. With a canted grip, you are using muscles in the back of your hand, wrist, and outside forearm to "control" the amount of "dip" of the muzzle. With straight up, the dip is held in place to a large degree by flexion of the tendons in the top of the wrist.
From rifle shooting:
Anytime you can put pressure on bone, use bone.
If you can't put pressure on bone, tendon is a good second choice.
If you absolutely must use muscle, do so- but only as a last resort.
The negative effects of cant may be somewhat subtle, but they do exist and need to at least be considered in your technique.
Steve Swartz
To toss in a bit more explanification (ran out of time yesterday) think about the "physiology" of a canted grip vs. straight up grip. With a canted grip, you are using muscles in the back of your hand, wrist, and outside forearm to "control" the amount of "dip" of the muzzle. With straight up, the dip is held in place to a large degree by flexion of the tendons in the top of the wrist.
From rifle shooting:
Anytime you can put pressure on bone, use bone.
If you can't put pressure on bone, tendon is a good second choice.
If you absolutely must use muscle, do so- but only as a last resort.
The negative effects of cant may be somewhat subtle, but they do exist and need to at least be considered in your technique.
Steve Swartz
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2650 Plus
canh in hold
Strange bit of information has to do with a previous world record holder in free pistol. He rolled the pistol over and had his sights mounted on the left side of his pistol. The sights appeared square to his eyes because of the extreme reverse cant of his pistol. I believe this shoulder positition removed muscle tension in the shooting shoulder and permitted a stiller hold. Seems to me I read somewhere that holding the pistol still was a fundamental. I am not recomending this approach as I never attempted it in my shooting. Good Shooting Bill Horton
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2650 Plus
cant in hold
Strange bit of information has to do with a previous world record holder in free pistol. He rolled the pistol over and had his sights mounted on the left side of his pistol. The sights appeared square to his eyes because of the extreme reverse cant of his pistol. I believe this shoulder positition removed muscle tension in the shooting shoulder and permitted a stiller hold. Seems to me I read somewhere that holding the pistol still was a fundamental. I am not recomending this approach as I never attempted it in my shooting. Good Shooting Bill Horton
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Guest