TargetTalk

Hi....after 2 1/2 years that one of my air cilyndes blow up and take in ther way my right ear, finaly I get the medical autorizathion to shoot again

But i´m a litlte concern (or must i said afraid) about my other cilynders, there is some test that i can do to check if they still "in condition" to use?

They need a Hydrostatic test like the scuba tanks?

I will like to ear you comments or opinions about it?


Regards

Jorge Fernandez
Mexico City

Kronosmx wrote:Hi....after 2 1/2 years that one of my air cilyndes blow up and take in ther way my right ear, finaly I get the medical autorizathion to shoot again

But i´m a litlte concern (or must i said afraid) about my other cilynders, there is some test that i can do to check if they still "in condition" to use?

They need a Hydrostatic test like the scuba tanks?

I will like to ear you comments or opinions about it?


Regards

Jorge Fernandez
Mexico City

Personally if that happened to me and both cylinders are of the same vintage and been used the same I know I would just through the other one out and get new ones. I value my life way more than a few hundred dollars. What make were they? I've never heard about that happening with the air gun cylinders. Had it been damaged? How old was it and approx. how much use had it seen? Had it been filled with a pump or a scuba tank? Sorry for the questions but I think myself and others might be interested so as to prevent such an accident from happening if possible.

Richard H wrote:
Personally if that happened to me and both cylinders are of the same vintage and been used the same I know I would just through the other one out and get new ones. I value my life way more than a few hundred dollars. What make were they? I've never heard about that happening with the air gun cylinders. Had it been damaged? How old was it and approx. how much use had it seen? Had it been filled with a pump or a scuba tank? Sorry for the questions but I think myself and others might be interested so as to prevent such an accident from happening if possible.

Richard H, i´l try to answer all your questions , this are the History:

I buy one of the fist Morini 162MI and it comes with 2 "long" cylinders

May be 5 years ago i buy a "short" cylinder (this was the one that blow up) because i was needing a shoulder surgery and i will need someting ligther to the recovering process

I was not going to be able to shoot for 1 year so i lend it to a friend, he use to shoot 2 complete cylinders daily, he use to charge the cilynders from pump.

When i start to shooting again i recover my "short" cilynder and use like the other ones, i charge it the saturday nigth to shoot the Sunday and recharge one again at midle of week (with pump) i just shoot 3 day a week

That was the use for 3 years, one year very intensive (with my friend) and 2 years "relaxed" with me

The original ones have less work because just use them 1 o 1 1/2 year (i don´t use by the weigth)

Now the responses :

What make were they? This one was a Morini

Had it been damaged? i don´t belive, i was using it regulay 2 or 3 timeas a week.....I don´t know, when i was back from the hospital review the pieces and it seem ok, the manometer was the part that blow up

How old was it and approx. how much use had it seen? 3 years and the use is described at the history part

Had it been filled with a pump or a scuba tank? 90 % times with a pump

i will try to take and post some pictures from the cylinder, if have more questions don´t worry, shoot them :)

Glad to hear you're better. Did you contact Morini, they may want to take a look at the cylinder to see if there was any manufacturing defect.

Was there any evidence of pitting or corrosion?

Pictures would be interesting.

Again sorry for the questions but in my past life I was a Quality/Reliability engineer and did failure analysis, so this I find very interesting.

I still think I would buy new cylinders and not lend then to anyone. It's always possible that your friend overfilled the cylinder. I really don't know how you would Hydro those small cylinders, scuba tanks are easy, but the AP cylinders would have to be dimantled and they would need the tools to do it and probably adapters.

Richard my responses with Red

Richard H wrote:Glad to hear you're better. Thanks

Did you contact Morini, they may want to take a look at the cylinder to see if there was any manufacturing defect. A. No i don´t contact Morini, i don´t know who to contact

Was there any evidence of pitting or corrosion? No there is not pitting or corrosion

Pictures would be interesting. i will try to post them, but i forgot the user and password for login at Target Talk do you know how to include the pictures?

Again sorry for the questions but in my past life I was a Quality/Reliability engineer and did failure analysis, so this I find very interesting.

I still think I would buy new cylinders and not lend then to anyone. It's always possible that your friend overfilled the cylinder. I really don't know how you would Hydro those small cylinders, scuba tanks are easy, but the AP cylinders would have to be dimantled and they would need the tools to do it and probably adapters.

It does sound very bizzare and it's certainly the first I've ever heard of such an incident. I am however sure morini would be extremely interested in investigating this fully.

As an aside I believe it is pretty simple to open a morini cylinder - the valve unscrews once it's been emptied of course. Apparently you just need spare seals in case you damage them.

I also don't know what looking inside would tell you. Gross pitting would be evident but fracture lines wouldn't. For that you'd need something like x-ray or ultrasound. I'd be inclined to replace all the cylinders 'just in case'

Rob.

P.S. I'd too be very interested in seeing the pictures

I have handled CO2 and pca cylinders for pistols for over 30 years. I have heard of one blown CO2 cylinder, and many more damaged. Cause has been overfilling, damaging valve seats, which leads to leaks.

I have never actually hears of any (!) blown cap-cylinder before. I have hears of incidents where cpa-cylinders have blown OFF (tearing off threads) scuba tanks. The cause have always been that the valve of the tank was left open during unscrewing of the cylinder. Not smart. But never has the cpa-cylinder failed itself.
A club friend reported failure of a cylinder, or actually the buildt-in manometer, of a FWB 30 cylinder. The manometer sort of got loose and "fell partly into the cylinder" I was told. Strange. But the cylinder did not blow or leak. I never got to actually see that cylinder myself.

Your cylinder has been used for a ong time, and filled repeatably. This indicates there was no manufacturing flaw cause then it would probably have blown at an early stage.
Could the cause be overfilling? Say filling of a cold cylinder from a cold and recently filled scuba tank? Could the full cylinder have been exposed to direct (mexican) sunlight? say inside a car? Whic could up the pressure considerably.

The manometers of my Morini cylinders are graduated to 250 bars. A full charged 200 bar scuba tank is usually fillet to about 210, sometimes 220 bars. Inside a car left in direct sunlight temperatures can reach 70 or even 80 degrees Celsius. If your tank was filled to 220 bars at 20 degress C, at 80 degrees C the pressure would rise to say about 250 bars. Which would be well within safety limits of the cylinder.

Your blow-up remains a mystery. I have become a bit anscious, though. The incident should be investigated in detail, I recommend.

Sorry about that miscalculation. At 80 C the pressure could rise to 270 bars (from 220 bars at 20 C). But still well within safety limits of the cylinder.

Rob [or anyone else familiar with Morini cylinders]


If the valve is easily removable, could it be done at the airport if a TSA rep insists he needs to look inside??

F. Paul in Denver wrote:Rob [or anyone else familiar with Morini cylinders]


If the valve is easily removable, could it be done at the airport if a TSA rep insists he needs to look inside??

As I understand it yes. I do not have a morini and that's 2nd hand info from a guy who has one and works in a gun shop. I would not however advise opening the things on every trip. Once every few years perhaps -as long as you know what you're doing and do it properly. As above though you don't want to mess with high pressure fittings and make them unsafe.

Rob.

Mr. "KRONOSMX", could you please shed some more light over this incident?
What exactly did happen:
Was the cylinder blown completely apart, or did it just rupture?
Were you filling the cylinder when it happened?
Were you holding the gun when the cylinder blew?
Under what conditions did it blow?

An interesting and important topic.

Kronosmx wrote: Hi....after 2 1/2 years that one of my air cilyndes blow up and ...

The very first Morini el. (that is, about 25 years ago!) had, sometimes!, problems of this kind. But at that time, the Morini pistol was sold with _fixed_ air cylinders only. (But did that gauge work properly? May this be the cause?).
s.

Hi...excuse me but I was a little sick/busy:

I’ll try to response all the questions but I can’t post the pictures, I forget the password

Pistolero:

Could the cause be overfilling?
May be when I give the cylinder to my friend
filling of a cold cylinder from a cold and recently filled scuba tank?
Normally I fill the cylinders myself by pump to a maximum of 200 bar
Could the full cylinder have been exposed to direct (mexican) sunlight?
some times, yes, but not was the usual way
say inside a car?
some times but not generally

Your blow-up remains a mystery. I have become a bit anscious, though. The incident should be investigated in detail, I recommend.
Yes I agree with you, Mr. Scott Pilkington ask me to send the cylinder to review it, now he has the cylinders

Harror Dei:


Was the cylinder blown completely apart, or did it just rupture?
The Manometer was expelled at one direction and the cylinder complete with valve goes on the opposite direction, the cap that goes around the manometer was never found
Were you filling the cylinder when it happened?
Yes, when end of filling, unscrew it, when I was to put at the case I hear a little "ssssssss" so I check the manometer...all ok the 200 bar I put, then take the cylinder close to mi ear to check if I was some leak...that was the moment that blow up
Were you holding the gun when the cylinder blew?
No, I was charging the cylinders
Under what conditions did it blow?
Cylinder was Cool, Room was Cool, Halloween day, the pistol have 2 day without shoot

Sceriri:

But at that time, the Morini pistol was sold with _fixed_ air cylinders only.
I think I have one of the first with interchangeable cylinders the serial number is #01517
(But did that gauge work properly?
Yes the gauge was working properly for some time (at least 1 year)


All:
After sending the pictures to Warren Potter at Pilkington Guns, he told me that it was not a really short Cylinder like used now at the Morini Gun, it was one of the cylinders used at kit conversion from CO2 to CA for a FWB gun

I still looking the way to show you the pictures

Jorge Fernandez Diaz
Mexico City

This are the pictures

Regards
Jorge

Hi!

The gun in question had changable air-cylinders. As far as I know only the 162E has the fixed cylinder, and no manometer, as the front of the cylinder is for attaching to the pump for filling... (I got one of these myself)

I once heard of a test to blow the cylinder, but the seals gave in and the air leaked out long before there was any damage to the actual cylinder.