TargetTalk

Hi All,

Time has come to replace my trusty SPE with something a bit more modern. I'm going to buy a new SP. The only other choice I have to make is mech or electronic trigger.

To that point, I have 2 question: Are the electronic triggers adjustable for a long, rolling, increasing weight single stage pull? And: Do they "fall off" after the release or do they maintain the release weight?

I setup my other pistols with a long rolling pull through type trigger a couple years ago and have found that I shoot this type of trigger much better so I want to make sure I can satisfy my inner techno-geek and my trigger finger at the same time with the electronic. If not, I'll return to luddite status and stick with the mechanical.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom wrote:Hi All,

Time has come to replace my trusty SPE with something a bit more modern. I'm going to buy a new SP. The only other choice I have to make is mech or electronic trigger.

To that point, I have 2 question: Are the electronic triggers adjustable for a long, rolling, increasing weight single stage pull? And: Do they "fall off" after the release or do they maintain the release weight?

This previous thread should answer most of your questions. Take note that there have been a number of reports of very poor reliability with electronic trigger SPs.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=11869

Anonymous wrote:Take note that there have been a number of reports of very poor reliability with electronic trigger SPs.

I think you are being a little unfair. It is true that the early electronics may not have been good but I haven't heard any complaints about reliability on the latest modules (marked "760" or possibly higher).

There is still some concern about what happens when the batteries start to lose power (thousands of shots down the road). At some stage the batteries may not recharge the circuit quick enough in the 10 second series (or the Rapid match) resulting in a malfunction. By the time the Range Officer investigates the circuit will have re-charged and the gun will go bang: non-allowable. It looks like this can be avoided by sensible battery use. Use a set for 1500 trigger releases then only use them for training for example.

David Levene wrote:There is still some concern about what happens when the batteries start to lose power (thousands of shots down the road). At some stage the batteries may not recharge the circuit quick enough in the 10 second series (or the Rapid match) resulting in a malfunction.

This points up an interesting conflict between design objectives and technology constraints. When I was thinking about buying a new Pardini SP so I could shoot international rules without having to take the red dot off the SP I already had set up for NRA rules, I asked Larry Carter for his opinion on whether I should consider the new electronic model. His view was that the electronic trigger was an advantage mostly just in rapid fire. Especially since I already had a mechanical SP and I liked it, and I was expecting to shoot the new gun in regular standard pistol matches, he expected I'd be happiest staying with the mechanical.

I'm satisfied Larry knows a lot more about shooting and about triggers and guns than I do, so I expect his advice was good. Certainly, it worked out for me: I'm delighted with my mechanical SP New; it feels very much like my old SP and that's just what I wanted. And I expect he was right that if I was looking for a gun specifically for rapid fire, that the electronic trigger might offer some advantage there. But your comment, David, is a good reminder that if you'd like to use an electronic trigger in a RF event, it makes good sense to have fresh batteries!

The SP1 which I just purchased (new) has an electronic module stamped '760'. I hope it turns out to be reliable. Haven't shot it yet so will soon find out...

As for batteries, let's be realistic. How many of us have digital cameras, MP3 players, flashlights, etc etc etc that need batteries changed on a regular basis? The answer is lots. Having to change a pair of AAA cells in our pistol, even if it is on a regular basis like once every month (heaven forbid) is not going to kill us. The reality is that we're willing to pay between a thousand and two thousand dollars for a pistol, then complain about putting two bucks worth of batteries in it. Heck, you spend far more than that in gas to drive to the range. Changing the batteries is of such minor concern that it's a topic which should never even have to be discussed here. Put fresh ones in before every major match and stop worrying. If you're really worried about cost and environmental impact, try using rechargeable alkaline cells (Pure Energy cells are a good Canadian product that works very well in these applications).

(This being written by a fellow who is still shooting the same battery in his Morini CM84E that was installed just before Nationals in July 2004! It's starting to get pretty weak, but still works just fine. And I have a spare battery, just in case, as well as a "match" battery that gets installed just before I shoot a match, and removed afterwards for training sessions.)

Mark Briggs wrote:The SP1 which I just purchased (new) has an electronic module stamped '760'. I hope it turns out to be reliable. Haven't shot it yet so will soon find out...

As for batteries, let's be realistic. How many of us have digital cameras, MP3 players, flashlights, etc etc etc that need batteries changed on a regular basis? The answer is lots. Having to change a pair of AAA cells in our pistol, even if it is on a regular basis like once every month (heaven forbid) is not going to kill us. The reality is that we're willing to pay between a thousand and two thousand dollars for a pistol, then complain about putting two bucks worth of batteries in it. Heck, you spend far more than that in gas to drive to the range. Changing the batteries is of such minor concern that it's a topic which should never even have to be discussed here. Put fresh ones in before every major match and stop worrying. If you're really worried about cost and environmental impact, try using rechargeable alkaline cells (Pure Energy cells are a good Canadian product that works very well in these applications).

(This being written by a fellow who is still shooting the same battery in his Morini CM84E that was installed just before Nationals in July 2004! It's starting to get pretty weak, but still works just fine. And I have a spare battery, just in case, as well as a "match" battery that gets installed just before I shoot a match, and removed afterwards for training sessions.)

I ask myself the same question every time I see a post with someone looking for the "most accurate cheap" pellets for pracitce in their $1000-$2000 dollar air pistol, when you probably save about a $1.00 per 500.

Mark Briggs wrote:Changing the batteries is of such minor concern that it's a topic which should never even have to be discussed here.

I think it's great that changing batteries doesn't bother you, but I don't think it's realistic to expect that it shouldn't bother others or that the concern isn't worth voicing. It was a factor for me, maybe not a big one, but one I thought about. This isn't a perfectly rational world we live in and if you think I'm irrational because I do think about changing batteries, big deal. There's already a waiting list of people who want to tell me I'm nuts! We each spend our own money and we each make our decisions in ways that make us happiest. :)

I think there is a difference between a battery going weak in a free pistol, where it has a whole minute to charge the circuit and there's time to change the battery if you discover a problem, vs. a rapid fire event, where it's got to do the job in just two seconds and there's no time to do the swap; I think that was the point David was making and I thought it was a good one. Also, my own experience with batteries is that the longer they last, the more inclined I am to forget about them and to discover they're dead just when I need them to work. If you've developed a regimine of changing batteries every time you pick up the gun and you can stick to it and you're happy doing it, then great. But I know myself well enough to know that'd last about a week for me, then I'd get lazy. :)

Please keep the Morini electronics out of this, they will usually shoot for years before running out of gas, especially the older 15V version. Compared to this, the Pardini sucks batteries dry like a camel after five weeks in the desert. I had my GPE go bad on me in the national champs some years ago after only a few hundred shots (we didn't know about the problem then, the pistol was barely two months on the market) and since then I've heard a lot of people complain about that piece of engineering, which hasn't improved all that much. Biggest problem in my view is that you never know if you get a "monday" pistol, where the whole electronics are #¬°|§° from the beginning - some are good, and some aren't. As we say here, south of the alps it's Africa. I think the Pardini is a pretty good design, but I wouldn't shoot an electronic one in a major competition if I got it for free.

Tycho wrote:I had my GPE go bad on me in the national champs some years ago after only a few hundred shots (we didn't know about the problem then, the pistol was barely two months on the market) and since then I've heard a lot of people complain about that piece of engineering, which hasn't improved all that much.

As I said previously, modules numbered 760 seemed to be the turning point. I have heard numerous complaints about battery life on older modules but none on the 760. No doubt someone will now come up with an example of a 760 with a problem.

for Mark Briggs, what dealer did you get your Pardini?
mike

Am the proud owner of an electronic SP rapid fire. This might be the pistol for you as it has a single stage rolling trigger. For standard pistol I would personally have preferred a 2-stage crisp trigger (such as in the SP1 version), but for the rapid-fire event it is ideal. If you like this setup, see if you can try one it appears to be perfect for you. It is slightly heavy with its tungsten counterweights.
Contrary to the above posts I have absolutely no problems with the electronics (gun is fairly new) and can do at least 1000 releases with one set of batteries. Have the habit of replacing them before a match and using up the old ones in training (or in other battery operated devises).
Hope you find this somewhat helpful.
Cheers,
Bob

for Mikej - I purchased my Pardini through a local gunsmith who agreed to retail it to me to save me having to deal with the importer who is located half way across the province in Toronto. The Canadian importer/distributor is North Sylva, also known as International Imports. You can find them at www.targetshootingproducts.com.

For Nicole - we have different points of view based on our different backgrounds and different personalities. I view a full review of the condition of my firearms as a "must do" operation before any match. That's when the batteries get changed for my "match batteries". Your own personal characteristics provide for a different approach to this kind of routine maintenance. In this case, selecting a mechanical trigger is obviously the right thing for you to do. Raising the need to change batteries as a factor in the decision-making process is indeed a good and necessary discussion. The unfortunate side effect is that some folks might be scared away by an overly-heavy emphasis on this one factor, while perhaps missing out on some of the very strong positive effects of an electronic trigger. Some of these include the ability to improve the value of dry-fire training by not having to re-cock the pistol. I've chosen the electronic trigger because I weighed the factors against my own standards and determined its benefits outweigh its shortcomings. As with your free pistol choice, you've made the right choice for you. Let's hope the information and opinions we share help lead others to making an informed choice, and ultimately, the right choice for them as individuals.

For Mark Briggs....... would you email me offline.
mijay@shaw.ca

I used a GPE (electronic) for RF almost the first one imported by Nygord---there was constant flow of modules going back and forth between the of us. I bought a second module when I got the gun and thank God I had the two---it got to be a second hand joke on the Schlitz Comedy Hour---the adage was "one in the gun & one in the air." After about a year I recycled to the newer versions which were much more reliable. The story continues, to just after Sydney, when I got an under the table (sotte voce) hint that the current RF was kaput and our cranky little pop guns would be recycle material---so I did a quick sale and sold the two GPE's (one standard trigger) to two (at the time) very happy guys. I have tried to shoot RF with my Pardini SP and no way can I get five rounds off in 4 seconds with that gun and have more than target one and two in the bag with a 1kg. trigger. 8 seconds I get low 80's to a rare 90, 6 seconds I may actually pull an 80 ( by miracle )but 4 sec---ah-h-h-h-h yes!!!---usually 4-6 misses total on both strings. So long RF have a life.

I bought a Pardini SP1 Electronic Rapid Fire from Larry's in November of last year. Started shooting it late January this year. It has fired in excess of 8000 rounds, plus a few thousand dry fires. The original batteries just died last weekend, as I was on the way to a match and checked the gun. Yes, the recharge time slows down quire a bit as batteries died.

Replacing the 2 AAA batteries is a 5 minute job.

There have been ZERO malfunctions of the trigger.

I have had perhaps 5 stovepipes, all from Aguila Subsonic, in 40 degree weather, from a gun that had not been cleaned in thousands of rounds. First cleaning was at 6000 rounds.

Gun has shot:
Aguila Subsonic
Aguila Standard
SK Pistol Match
Federal 711B
Eley Standard
Eley Standard Pistol
Eley Pistol Match
Eley Club
Eley Tenex

All function perfectly, except the Subsonic noted above. But it is low power ammo, in a dirty gun, in cold weather (grease thick) = not the guns fault.

I don't know how anyone could complain about this gun. It's reliability rivals my Walther GSP's.

By the way, I just removed the tungsten weights from the front, for an experiment. It feels like shooting an IZH-35. Kind of like using a fly swatter.

Jeff

I just recieved my new Pardini SP1 - fresh right from the factory Trigger feels fantastic. I can't wait to try it. Electronic trigger module is 760 M btw.

Cheers,
Axel

Not had any battery life problems since new electronics.

The rollover trigger is most definitely possible and worked flawlessly for about 1500 rounds as I only had a few days with it to shoot ORF. Superb results with the kit. Well done Pardini!

The Lapua super club was excellent training ammunition for ORF, cleaner than the tinned variety and about the same price. No issues over the 1500 rounds and very nice recoil feel for 4s series.

I understand lower velocity of the Lapua/S&K ORF causes issues with Pardini. We don’t have chronograph and would appreciate heads-up on this. I did hear rumour that this ammunition has been discontinued for this reason. It was nice for standard pistol. Would be interested din others opinions with access to hard data?

I have a crisp 2-stage trigger setup. It feels wonderful. My new pistol will lose its virginity tomorrow. ;-)

I have shot lots of Lapua Super Club with my Pardini SP New (manual trigger). Super Club works fine. But I have had bad luck with some newer lot numbers - very soft and with reload problems when using a new recoil spring. Problematic lot numbers had about 250-260m/sec in chronograph speed, some even went down to 220m/sek. That is to low! Good lot number were about 280-290m/sec.

Lapua Pistol King and Eley Target Pistol also works fine. Eley is a bit dirtier though.

The lower speed Super Club works perfectly in my Morini free pistol, excellent precision with barrel clamped into a vise. Interesting!

Cheers