TargetTalk

I'm quite new to smallbore, so perhaps my experience last night comes under the heading of distractions you just need to ignore. But let me tell the story and get some advice.

I guess I should have known better than set up next to this particular young fellow. When I first came in, his stuff was so spread out it was hard to tell which of three lanes was his. He had an overly wide mat with "tails" on either side, his gun was setting in a box (like the one I described in another thread) in the next lane to the right along with a duffel bag of odds and ends and his scope was in the lane to the left with another bag of stuff. But I've been shooting both pistol and smallbore in the same lane, the one to his right, for several weeks and, while I'm not superstitious, I do like keeping things the same as much as possible, so I confirmed he was in lane 9 and politely asked if he could make some room for me to set up in 10.

It was crowded next to this guy all through the match but not to the point of distraction 'till it came to the offhand portion. But what he did then just drove me bonkers. He set up his rifle stand so that when he rested the gun between shots, it wasn't pointed straight down the lane, it was at a 45 degree angle with the muzzle almost dead square in the middle of my lane (but over the red line.) Every time he lifted the gun or set it down, there was this damn gun barrel moving around right in front of me!

I could stand it only for about 4 or 5 shots before turning to him to tell him, as politely as I could under the circumstances, that this was very distracting. Oh, okay, and he moved a little, but realistically not enough to actually do anything. I ended up turning in the worst OH string I have ever shot!

So, advice, please? For starters, I have no idea if what he was doing was all that wrong or just annoying to me but actually okay. Also, I went home wondering how I really should have handled it, even assuming I had a valid complaint. (I do know that you're not supposed to talk during a match.) What would the rest of you do -- besides choosing a lane far away if you saw him at another match?

You know what was the best thing I would have done?

I would have shot him off!

Seriously! such a bugging and an annoying character! All of us are taught of the range disiplne even before we pickup the weapons.. Some characters like these need to be awakened!

Try and tell the range office that his movements are causing distractions to you from your lane.. There is no point talking to such a NUT character!

Rather you should not be talking to him during his shooting so, just call the instructor or a range officer and tell him your problem!

Frankly, this topic does not even need to be posted! Its such a simlpe issue! Man I suggest you to ask some olympic kind of issues.. Anyway hope this solves it!

Rajesh,
Indian National Shooter.

There was your lesson in distraction training and it sounds like you didn't fair too well. That is a usual occurrance when rifle and pistol shooters shoot together when standing the rifle is always going to be angled to the right (right hand shooter). He may have been over doing it but I can't say I wasn't there.

I was at an AP match with hand cranks I had this guy beside me who crank the targets so fiercely it made the whole bench shake(it was cold and he was actually working up a sweat). It drove me nuts, but it was a distraction and I should have been able to deal with it (shot ok but the fact that I let it bother me I count as a failure).

Suggestion in the future don't shoot to the right of a fight handed rifle shooter if at all possible (one of the reason they don't normally shot together in matches, we sqaud them together in air though).

Use these things to your advantage, learn how to handle adversity and shoot through it and it will make you a much stronger shooter in matches.

Were you shooting rifle Nicole? If so he would really have to have been very far into your lane to bother you. His barrel would almost have to have been touching yours for it to be a distraction.

Yes, this was smallbore rifle. I'm a right handed shooter and so was he. He had his offhand rifle rest at the front right corner of his lane and, as I said, when he rested the rifle, it wasn't just "at an angle" as I'd seen typically, but at an exaggerated 45 degree angle. The result was that his muzzle was waving around maybe 10" or 12" below and 3" to 6" to the left of mine when I was in position.

Perhaps this is just ordinary distraction. I've shot a lot of pistol matches and a fair number of high power matches (where the rest is a stool, not a stand) but I'm new to smallbore. I had just never encountered this or seen anyone else do it, which is why I was seeking advice.

smallbore shooters need to have their gun rest between positions off a a bit of an angle. i am usually around 30 degrees. sometimes distractions like this happen, and sometimes you have to work through the situation. one thing that does concern me, however, is if he really was angled any further out than 45 degrees, then that could be a saftey concern. now if the end of the barrel was actually crossing over into your line then i would say something to the range officer. if the barrel was just pointing in that general direction but contained within his point, tough luck.

No, no, this was definitely into my lane, by a good 7" to 10". It was way more than I'd ever seen.

Btw, point of clarification: Rereading the responses, I can see now that some of you, who know I'm mostly a pistol shooter, thought I was shooting pistol next to someone shooting rifle. No, no. This was a smallbore rifle match and that's what I was shooting, too.

It is extremely important to learn to deal with distraction. If they are of a safety nature I would immediately tell a range officer. I read some time ago, and not sure if completely true or not, that Lones Wigger used to train standing with another soldier standing nose to nose with him yelling loudly at him. He did this to hone his ability to deal with distractions to the point of completely ignoring everything outside of his sight picture and the target.
Having been a competive shooter for 50 years I have seen many tricks used to upset competitors and gain advantages. You have to deal with it if it is not breaking safety or match rules. Being able to shut out the world is an advantage that makes one a better shooter. Work on it!

Gaffer wrote:You have to deal with it if it is not breaking safety or match rules.

Uhm, that was my question, I thought: Was he breaking the rules?

I understand totally that if it's not against the rules, you have to be prepared to put up with it. Yes, I do understand the value of ignoring distractions. Shall I belabor that through a few more iterations, just to be clear that I really appreciate that point?

But that wasn't my question. My question was: Is this okay or against the rules and, if against the rules, what do you do? What are the rules? I really didn't know and I still don't. If the answer is, they can do anything short of bumping your rifle and you just have to put up with it, that's fine, I don't make the rules, I was just asking what they are.

Nicole Hamilton wrote:But that wasn't my question. My question was: Is this okay or against the rules and, if against the rules, what do you do? What are the rules? I really didn't know and I still don't. If the answer is, they can do anything short of bumping your rifle and you just have to put up with it, that's fine, I don't make the rules, I was just asking what they are.

now we are getting to a different problem. i don't know what kind of match you were shooting or under what rules, and i can't tell you off the top of my head what the rules say. it is the shooter's responsibility to know the rules and know how to address the situation when something go wrong (ie. someone breaking a rule). you're going to need to find the rule book and learn it. i don't mean memorize the whole thing, but familiarize yourself with it enough to know who to approach, how to protest, what to do in certain situations (like a crossfire). also know how to look the rules up, so if need be you can sit down and look it up real quick. see when you start shooting smallbore there are a ton of different rule books. there's like 3 or 4 for the nra, one for usa shooting, one for ncaa, one for issf...well you get the idea. throw in air rifle and you are carrying around a box full of books! my point is you need to look at the match program to see what rules you're shooting under, then refresh yourself on those rules before you go to the match. hope this helps even though i didn't directly answer the question, because honestly i don't know the answer.

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

Gaffer wrote:You have to deal with it if it is not breaking safety or match rules.

Uhm, that was my question, I thought: Was he breaking the rules?

Yes, if it was an ISSF match.

7.4.7.12.2
Rifle Rests
The use of a rifle rest for resting the rifle between shots is permitted providing that it is not higher than the shooter’s shoulders when standing normally. A stand for resting the rifle must not be placed in front of the shooting table in the standing position. A kneeling roll may be used as a rifle rest between shots. Care must be exercised that whilst resting the rifle, it does not intrude upon the adjacent shooter. For safety whilst the rifle is on the rifle rest, it must also be held by the shooter.

7.4.7.12.3
Shooting box or bag
The shooting box or bag must not be placed forward of the shooter's forward shoulder on the firing line, except that in the standing position a shooting box or bag, table, or stand may be used as a rifle rest between shots. The shooting box or bag, table or stand must not be of such size or construction as to interfere with shooters on adjacent points or to constitute a wind break.

7.9.6.6
If a shooter impedes another shooter in an unsportsmanlike manner when the latter is shooting, two (2) points must be deducted. If the incident is repeated, disqualification must be imposed.

Sparks wrote:

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

Gaffer wrote:You have to deal with it if it is not breaking safety or match rules.

Uhm, that was my question, I thought: Was he breaking the rules?

Yes, if it was an ISSF match.

exactly! you need to know the rules before you go into the match. and if that was an issf match how would you address the problem? you should know that too. it's your responsibility. i'm not trying to be mean and i sure hope that i don't sound that way out here, but obviously this incident was a good thing in terms of learning.

I would most defffinately have reported it to a RO. Even if the comp wasn't an ISSF one, it is still out of order to have you gun in another shooters lane - that's why lanes are the size they are in the first place. It does however illustrate how important it is to know the rules governing any competition you are entering.

Rob.

Nicole Hamilton wrote: I guess I should have known better than set up next to this particular young fellow. When I first came in, his stuff was so spread out it was hard to tell which of three lanes was his. He had an overly wide mat with "tails" on either side, his gun was setting in a box (like the one I described in another thread) in the next lane to the right along with a duffel bag of odds and ends and his scope was in the lane to the left with another bag of stuff.

Hi Nicole

How wide were the lanes? For smallbore / air rifle, the CMP changed the minimum width from 48 inches to 40 inches. The NRA reccommends a minimum of 48 inches. Note that I don't have my rule book here at work. I also have the Champion's (Shooters or Choice) matt with wings. Our club tried the 40 inch lanes and they're extremely tight no matter what you try. Tilting the matt to the normal 10-25 degrees will get the normal matts over the lines.

I was concerned that you were describing one or more of my students, but I noticed Washington... I have one 7th grader that is his own road show some days. Good shot though.

Mike
Wichita KS

Learning to ignore distractions is one thing. Someone waving the muzzle of a rifle at me is quite another. I'm not going to ignore that.

mikeschroeder wrote:How wide were the lanes? For smallbore / air rifle, the CMP changed the minimum width from 48 inches to 40 inches. The NRA reccommends a minimum of 48 inches.

I'm guessing about about 4 feet. I'll be shooting a standard pistol match there tonight, so I'll take a tape with me and measure. Fwiw, this particular fellow was pretty good, too, just annoying.

I would say that no matter what rules govern, a shooter must keep all of his or her body and equipment inside the area marked as their lane - I don't think you need to whip out a rule book to figure that out.

You could have made your gun safe and spoken to that range officer about it. It's his job to make a ruling on what happens on his line.

About the "distraction training", sure you should be able to block out outside things that attempt to get your attention during a match, but I don't think for a minute that any one of the shooters that replied with "just block it out" would have left that type of thing go without trying to correct it one way or the other.

You shouldn't have to deal with someone in "your space" during a match - that's why you have lane markings.


Jay V
AIAC
IL

snapy050 wrote: Frankly, this topic does not even need to be posted! Its such a simlpe issue! Man I suggest you to ask some olympic kind of issues..

Rajesh,
Indian National Shooter.

Please.......... Give us all a break.

Nicole, This kind of topic should be posted here. It is 100% appropriate. After all the sacrifices that competitive shooters make to perform well it is unacceptable when an inconsiderate person ruins a match. A major part of the competitive experience is a respect for your fellow competitors. You do not want to outscore someone by using some unethical trick like distractions. A visual distraction like this should not be tolerated and the Match Director(RSO) is not competent if he/she is not noticing this on his own without you having to bring this to his attention. I do not know the rules of your discipline but in ours we can file a protest against a fellow competitor on any rules violation including loud talking, equipment etc. If the protest is upheld by the Jury of officials then the violator is sent home with no score. The violators that have been sent home never returned to competition. Do not keep picking the same lane. Pick a different lane each time you shoot unless there is an open door or A/C vent that is affecting your pellet/bullet or poor lighting. There is no luck or lucky charms. There is nothing but your mental toughness and determination to do well. You never know when someone will beat you to your "lucky" lane. I would pick lanes away from this problem person and away from other people period so that you can be comfortable. Keep shooting and keep posting!