TargetTalk

Quick Q:

Standing in a row with loads of other shooters in an air-pistol event must mean that loading discipline is crucial.

I like to shoot several shots without breaking my foot position or grip which means I load the pistol immediately after I have finished my follow-through and then leave it loaded (pointing down range) whilst I regain my composure and focus.

Is this OK? What do I do if I put the gun down (unloaded) to go for a stroll? Is there an accepted etiquette - leave the lever up to indicate it is 'safe'?

Also, whilst I am loading (and keeping my feet planted on the ground, whilst twisting in an unseemly fashion) do I have to keep the gun pointing exactly down-range all the time, even when the lever is up?

Obviously there are extreme (and ridiculous) interpretations of what I have just said - assume I am not a complete idiot and avoid pointing a loaded gun at the competitor next to me - It would be nice if any experienced shooter could provide some simple, clear guidance / etiquette so I don't make a complete arse of myself at my first proper competition.

Mike,
Guns should be pointed down range at all times. Guns should not be put down loaded and when unloaded and put down the breech should be clearly open such that it can be seen to be unloaded.

As an aside it is considered bad advice to 'keep grip' between shots. It is better to retake the grip on every shot.

Rob.

Mike S-J wrote:What do I do if I put the gun down (unloaded) to go for a stroll? Is there an accepted etiquette - leave the lever up to indicate it is 'safe'?

Also, whilst I am loading (and keeping my feet planted on the ground, whilst twisting in an unseemly fashion) do I have to keep the gun pointing exactly down-range all the time, even when the lever is up?

As from 01/01/2006 rule 8.2.5.1 was amended to read:-
"When the pistol is out of its case, the pistol must always be pointed in a safe direction. When not actually firing, all pistols must be unloaded and the action must be open. The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area. In the range, when the pistol is not on the firing point, it must always be in its case, unless otherwise authorized by a Range Officer."

So the answers to your questions are:-

When you go walkabout the pistol must be unloaded and the lever up. Rule 8.2.5.6 also says "During the competition the pistol may be put down only after the cartridge(s) and/or magazine are removed and the action is open. Air and gas pistols must be made safe by opening, and keeping open, the cocking handle and/or loading port."

The pistol must be pointing towards the targets/butt stop before you close the lever. At all other times the pistol must be pointing in a safe direction with the lever up. Common sense, and possibly additional local safety rules, always apply.

You may be interested to note that rule 8.9.5.1 includes the sentance "A shooter may leave the firing line only after notifying a Range Officer and without disturbing other shooters." You do not ask the Range Officer's permission, you tell him.

RobStubbs wrote:
As an aside it is considered bad advice to 'keep grip' between shots. It is better to retake the grip on every shot.

Why?

You may be interested to note that rule 8.9.5.1 includes the sentance "A shooter may leave the firing line only after notifying a Range Officer and without disturbing other shooters." You do not ask the Range Officer's permission, you tell him.

I always took this to mean if you actually left the firing line completely, like to go to the washroom or something. Does it included if a just walk away from my firing postion, as in stepping back and walking around on the firing line? Can you shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.



I guess the benefit of regripping everytime would be a reduction in fatigue and a more consitent grip pressure, as you continue to grip your grip usually tightens and I guess by re-gripping and establishing your position everytime you will account for the natural tendency for NPA to move through-out a match.

Richard H wrote:I always took this to mean if you actually left the firing line completely, like to go to the washroom or something. Does it included if a just walk away from my firing postion, as in stepping back and walking around on the firing line? Can you shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

I think this is one of those rules that needs a bit of "Common Sense" interpretation. If you read 6.3.6.1 strictly then it is possible to be within your firing point but not at the firing line, but that would be blatantly ridiculous in this context.

I have always taken it to mean that if the shooter wishes to leave the shooters/officials area and enter the spectator area then he must notify the RO.

Rob,

Why do you suggest to regrip on every shot? I never found a problem with keeping the grip from shot to shot. To me it was an issue of, I already had a grip on the gun, no need to regrip. Unless it was extremely warm on the range and there was an issue with sweat...

Mike Douglass

The idea is to take the grip properly just prior to commencing the shot sequence. If you load the gun 'in grip' then it moves. You also will not keep the grip pressure the same and again it moves. So from my point of view re-gripping ensures I grip the gun identically for each and every shot (and of course I can wipe of the sweat in hot ranges). Perhaps others can elaborate a bit more (?)

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:Perhaps others can elaborate a bit more (?)

Only to question you Rob.

If your grip is moving when putting a pellet in then there is something wrong with the grip (handle) shape or the way you are gripping it.

Also, I am a bit doubious about this "absolute requirement" for dry hands. I know that I am breaking every health & safety recommendation in the book but I always lick the palm of my hand before taking my grip on the pistol. If the grip (handle) is properly fitted and finished then it creates a bit of suction. The gun doesn't move in my hand. I have used this technique successfully over the years with Standard Pistol and Centre Fire.

As an aside - and following on from the (very helpful BTW) advice posted so far:

Does the pistol have to fit into the "standard measurement" box with the lever open?

Mike S-J wrote:Does the pistol have to fit into the "standard measurement" box with the lever open?

I don't believe that it actually specifies this in the rules but, no.

Probably a very stupid question, but here goes.

If after loading a pellet and closing the lever, you wish to put the pistol down but not move away from the firing point or shift foot position.
Can you lift the lever again and rest the pistol on the bench facing the target?
Or do you need to proceed and fire the pellet before putting the pistol down on the bench?

Anonymous wrote:Probably a very stupid question, but here goes.

If after loading a pellet and closing the lever, you wish to put the pistol down but not move away from the firing point or shift foot position.
Can you lift the lever again and rest the pistol on the bench facing the target?
Or do you need to proceed and fire the pellet before putting the pistol down on the bench?

Far from being a stupid question, that's a cracker, one of the most difficult I have heard in quite some time.

8.2.5.1 includes "When not actually firing, all pistols must be unloaded and the action must be open." This would indicate that before putting it down you must get the pellet out of it (somehow).

It's not that easy though as Rule 8.2.5.6 also says "During the competition the pistol may be put down only after the cartridge(s) and/or magazine are removed and the action is open. Air and gas pistols must be made safe by opening, and keeping open, the cocking handle and/or loading port." This one would indicate that, as there is no cartridge or magazine to remove, you just need to open the lever.

I personally would favour the second answer i.e. you just need to lift the lever. I am however open to persuasion and would welcome other opinions.

It does of course get more difficult. What do you do if someone has to go forward to fix the targets. Is "lever up" then sufficient.

I have seen other competitors do the following when needing to take a "break" in between shots/after loading: keep at least "finger contact" with the gun (ie, chess rules where your move isn't final until you remove your finger from the piece).

The rationale is "I am still in the process of firing" (to satisfy "letter of the law") and "I am maintaining safe positive control over the loaded pistol" (to satisfy "spirit/intent of the law").

It is amazing the amount of stretching, twisting, contorting, or just all around "taking a break"-ing that can be accomplished with one finger on the gun . . .

Steve Swartz

I guess this would come into play mostly if you've had 3 or 4 aborts and want to get the pistol out of your hand for while. Or some involuntary thing like the hiccups or muscle spasm after the pellet is loaded.

Personally I don't have a problem with someone putting down an AP with a pellet in it, the gun is still down range and the cocking lever is open. As for loading whilst retaining foot position, it really is quite easy. It's just a habit to get into, always knowing where your muzzle is pointing.

The tricky part, remembering it's loaded when you get back to it and not doing a double load.

David Levene wrote:

RobStubbs wrote:Perhaps others can elaborate a bit more (?)

Only to question you Rob.

If your grip is moving when putting a pellet in then there is something wrong with the grip (handle) shape or the way you are gripping it.

Also, I am a bit doubious about this "absolute requirement" for dry hands. I know that I am breaking every health & safety recommendation in the book but I always lick the palm of my hand before taking my grip on the pistol. If the grip (handle) is properly fitted and finished then it creates a bit of suction. The gun doesn't move in my hand. I have used this technique successfully over the years with Standard Pistol and Centre Fire.

David,
On the first point I don't really agree. There is a fair amount of pull required to cock the pistol and that is applied in a different direction to just shooting. To resist that movement requires a firmer grip on the gun and that of itself is not ideal. My hand is never dry, I just try and wipe off some of the sweat each time.

Looking at this from the other angle, why would you not want to re-grip each time ? You should take up the grip in exactly the same way for every shot and feel if it's OK or not. I suspect that some people will keep hold because it feels OK and they do not know how to take grip properly or consistently (probably because no ones ever showed them how to).

Rob.

"I suspect that some people will keep hold because it feels OK and they do not know how to take grip properly or consistently (probably because no ones ever showed them how to)."

Spot on Robb - given that you can't show me, any chance you could have a bash at telling me?[/quote]

RobStubbs wrote:Looking at this from the other angle, why would you not want to re-grip each time ?

If someone wants to re-take their grip for each shot to build in a routine that is fine, I have absolutely no problem with it. It just depends how far back in the pre-shot process you want to go to build that routine. I start mine from putting the pellet in, you start yours from taking the grip. There wouldn't be a problem if someone wanted to start their routine by walking up to the bench for each shot. To ask your question back, why would you not want to do that? As I said before, it just depends where you want to start your shot routine from.

I personally cannot see any advantage to re-taking my grip for each shot. If the grip is properly fitted to you then there is very little chance of it moving and, in the unlikely event that it does, it will feel uncomfortable so you will know there is something wrong.

David,
I too have no problems with people not regripping as long as they are confident at taking up the grip correctly if / when they have to put the gun down. I am sure however I have been given other sound reasons why re-gripping for every shot is a good idea - I just can't remember them ;) I'll have a look back through some of my notes to see what I can find.

Rob.