TargetTalk

Recently purchased an early model 280, the one with the two pins in the front, in .32S&W and have a few questions.

1) can anyone point me in the right direction on where to obtain an owners manual? An online PDF file would be a geat help right now if there is one out there.

2) I keep hearing of frames being cracked or becoming cracked. Is this something I should fear and how can I check mine to see if I have any damage.

3) what else should I know about the 280? I kinda jumped head 1st into this purchase and admit I know nothing about 280's

Thanks in advance for any and all help!!!!

Is the Pilkguns 10P File any good to you?

"Rolexrifleman", you reported hearing about cracked frames of the Haemmerli 280. This is scaring news for me, cause I own one.
Are you sure there is not any confusion here?
Cracked frames of the Haemmerli 20 yes, but the 280? Not to my knowledge
.
Has anybody out there ever seen any scracked 280 frames?

tseuG wrote:Has anybody out there ever seen any scracked 280 frames?

I have not seen any but heard of several on the early ones, on .22 as well as .32. I cannot remember where the reported cracks were.

It did not seem to be anywhere near the problem that it is on the SP20 .32 though.

D.L.

Thanks for the link I did not find it when I googled!!!!


tseuG,

It was specific to the 280 what I heard. In the same report I heard all teh carbon fiber framed pistols are prone to this.

My only question has always been was the ammunition loaded to "hot"?
I plan to reload and will not be pushing the bullets to hard. I am thinking in the low 700fps range. Almost like my 148 gr HBWC in my S&W 52

The majority of Hammerli 280’s that cracked were around the mag well on the .22 model where the Early Magtech was used (just after the headstamp changed from CBC). This is about 9 years ago. The .32’s that cracked that we were aware resulted from homeloads. The GBR SP20 cracked frames and more recently slides are all .32’s.

The 280 had a “strengthening” bar accessory that reduced the movement and stress. They were sold, heavily subsidised by Hammerli about 10 years ago. I installed one on both of my 280’s, I sold them to a team mate several years ago (I wish I had kept them and never came into contact with SP20’s!).

The bar is a one-way installation, users were told in no uncertain terms never to attempt removal of these bars once installed. They screw into the holes used by the three barrel weights. Once installed, you can not use the factory barrel weights BTW.

By chance is that what the blue thing is on the gun I just picked up? here's the package deal I just got.




Whats it worth? Did I do good under $700?

rolexrifleman

Real nice piece of timber in that grip, hope you dont have to bog it!!

Yes, that’s the one!
I note a screw is missing from the bar to the frame.
Remember not to take it off!
Enjoy your 208!

You mean 280 and thanks!

As far as the blue bar goes. Are you saying I should never remove it????

OOPS, yes 280!

Absolutely, according to the factory engineers, this bar should never be removed!

I can not think of a reason why one should want to remove a bar. To our knowledge, no 280 frame has cracked following its installation.

So, 280 frame can crack and SP20 frame can crack. What about the P240? Does it have any problems?
I'm wondering if there are any .32 S&W Long target pistols that do not suffer from cracked frames. I did own a mid '70s era GSP in .32 S&W Long that did not have any problems, but I shot less than 600 rounds per year through it - probably less than 5000 total by the time I sold it.

Funny you should mention the P240, our coach mentioned cracked frames for this model was a problem when he was shooting centre fire & free pistol as I was posting my SP20 update.

We need to remember that the .32 S&W is on the very limits of blow-back operation.

Forget that about killing a P240 in .32. They had some problems with the .38 barrels, but that's it. We're talking about 1.3kg of forged steel, can't blow that up with the .32 - if you stay in the standard range of target loads. There's not only the .38 it was designed for, I know for a fact that you can shoot 9mm Para from that frame whitout any problems - which is somehow logical, as it's a direct descendant of the 210-5. On the other hand, because of its weight, grip angle and sights, it's nearly incompatible with our new style .22s, so don't spend the money unless you tried it first. And even then, spare parts (firing pin etc) are a major problem.

Mike T. wrote:I'm wondering if there are any .32 S&W Long target pistols that do not suffer from cracked frames.

FAS 603. Unfortunately it is quite high maintenance in other areas. If you haven't got a reliable supply of spares I would be wary of recommending it. If you can get the spares and are prepared to give the gun a bit of tender loving care then it will take a lot of beating.

Well, understandably, I hope Tycho is correct regarding the P240.
As I said, I had a GSP, but it didn't have a case-catcher and between the long grass and the other competitors, I was losing about a third of my empty cases every match. So I traded a Walther FP electronic, for a P240 with a case-catcher. Then I added an anatomical grip with adjustable palm-shelf to the P240. The grip was really nice but it was of cocobolo (sp?) wood and pushed the pistol's weight over the 1400 gram limit :-(
So I got an SP20 :-(
After reading about the SP20 cracked frames, when I came across a barely-used 280 (early model) with a case-catcher, at a great price, I bought it :-(
Strangely, I haven't had any luck with lottery tickets, either :-)
The saving grace is that I don't shoot a lot of .32; so if I alternate between the 240, the 280, and the SP20, I should be good for a few years yet!

There is no real reason why 0.32 S+WL is 'at the limits' of blowback operation', I'm not sure where this statement has come from.

The chamber pressure and breech opening curves are the important features.

To compare (Hodgdon Data)

0.32 S+WL 90gr WC 844fps, 10,200 psi
0.380 Auto 90gr JHP 955fps 15,000psi

Granted 0.380 Autos aren't generally expected to have a long life but you don't expect them to crack up.

Equally, revolver frames, where the pressure spike is much worse and there is minimal metal to take the stress compared to the average Auto, should effectively last forever shooting target ammo.

If a 0.32 is cracking up it is likely to be bad design and/or wrong alloy selection. Aluminium or plastic composite frames are asking for trouble due to the fundamentally different way they handle fatigue.

Mike T. wrote:As I said, I had a GSP, but it didn't have a case-catcher and between the long grass and the other competitors, I was losing about a third of my empty cases every match. So I traded a Walther FP electronic, for a P240 with a case-catcher.

Out of interest, why didn't you just buy a case catcher for the GSP. They have been available for over 25 years.

David,
I did buy a case catcher, the mesh/net style with a wire frame and a metal strip with two mounting holes. I couldn't bring myself to drill the GSP frame for the two tapped holes required to mount the case catcher. (What if I put the holes in the wrong place? What if I drilled the holes cock-eyed or too deep or.....? You get the idea.) I have the same reluctance when it comes to modifying grips. Now if the grips have already been modified by a previous owner, then no problem - I'll cut and putty away. Not rational of course, this reluctance to "mar" an unblemished surface, when the goal is to improve my shooting "tool".

Mike T. wrote:I did buy a case catcher, the mesh/net style with a wire frame and a metal strip with two mounting holes. I couldn't bring myself to drill the GSP frame for the two tapped holes required to mount the case catcher. (What if I put the holes in the wrong place? What if I drilled the holes cock-eyed or too deep or.....? You get the idea.)

Mike, maybe you would have been better off buying a genuine Walther textile one. You don't have to drill any holes as it is held on be a Velcro strap.