New guy with a question

[mtds]

I'm getting back into air pistol markmanship after a long absence. I learned basic markmanship in the U.S. Marine Corps in the late 60's, competed in local NRA-sanctioned air rifle and air pistol matches in the late 70's, and then gave up shooting as my family grew.

Recently, I got out my FWB 80 (with stock rh adjustable grips), set up a little 10m range, and I've been trying to get in the black again. The first obstacle was aging eyes, but I found that an old pair of prescription eyeglasses with the addition of an aperture made of electrician's tape sharpened up the front sight blade quite a bit.

I'm having a great time, but I have a problem with my "natural sight alignment". (I'm not up to date on shooting jargon, so please forgive me if I'm not completely clear.) What I mean is that my front and rear sights do not stay in alignment if I close my eyes, raise my pistol a few inches, and then let it settle. When I open my eyes, the front sight blade is out of the rear sight notch to the left. I've crowded my thumb as far around the pistol as it will go (clockwise, looking at the top of the pistol) and the problem persists.

Now here's my question: Can anyone tell from the above if my problem is a grip problem or if it is a stance problem? As I write that it sounds like a lot to ask...how about this: is there any way I can troubleshoot my grip and stance to identify and correct this particular problem?

[sparky]

Grip. If you have proper sight alignment except the sights are off target, then it would be a stance problem.

[cdf]

I feel for you Bro. , my story is similar . It's like learning to walk all over again . Don't despair . I started again in late sept . , so far my best is 550 , and I'm averaging in the 525-535 area . It took me almost 3 months to get my stance and mechanics right , clubmates can be a great help , they often have insight into what's wrong . Hang in there Bro.!

Chris

[Steve Swartz]

Welcome Back!

If I understand you correctly, the gun is "naturally" pointed to the "left?"

So you should be moving the gun in your hand to the "right?"

This would be moving your thumb towards the back of the pistol (and not "crowding it around?").

I could be misunderstanding what you describe . . .

Steve Swartz

[Mark Briggs]

MTDS - from your description I believe that our esteemed colleague Steve Swartz has hit the nail on the head. It would appear as though your thumb is too far into the grip.

The easiest way to figure this out is to imagine the situation as viewed from above and looking down on the shooter. Assume the alignment of your shoulder, arm and wrist are a constant, because this is indeed the case. Your wrist should never flex left or right when you are shooting but rather should be allowed to naturally point forward.

I believe what you want to do is to allow the pistol to rotate clockwise in your hand (as viewed from above). This would effectively move the front site to the right when you're looking through the rear sight notch. This kind of rotation is accomplished by moving your fingers further forward in the grip and allowing them to wrap further around the front of the grip. Naturally your thumb won't extend as far forward on the thumb rest in this stance.

Try it and see, and write back as we're all anxious to hear that you've found a way to solve your problem and move on to the next stage of shooting development.

By the way - it looks like your FWB80 is in pristine condition. A fine pistol, and definitely one to be proud of!

[Dan]

I hope you enjoy your return to active shooting! Regarding your grip problem just in case you are not up to date with todays models, most high-end precompressed models these days feature a grip that can be adjusted in all three angles. I had the exact same problem and instead of adjusting myself to the pistol i just bought a steyr LP10 and "rotated" the pistol within the grip until it was in perfect alignment. That way theres less tension in the wrist, i just rise the pistol in the least exhausting wrist position and its perfectly aligned.

[The Outfitter]

An old FWB. Look at that trigger. It´s almost Soviet-style.
I have owned several FWBs: a couple of M65s, a Co2-2s, and a M34.

I realized at an early stage that the factory grips of FWBs are not made with human hands in mind.

Front blade to the right means your finger tip is to far to the left, relative to the axis of the gun.
Carving and/or putty could be the remedy for you.

Rgdz,

The senior Outfitter

[PETE S]

Consider the sight algnment to be four points on a line, the target, the front sight, the rear sight, and the pupil of the eye. The target is fixed. the pistol can be rotated in the hand, which means doing something to the grip to help insure consistent placement. The wirst can be rotated (VERY BAD IDEA, how do you do this consistently, muscule strain, etc).

We often think of the head as being stationary and I guess it should be. But how many of us have a position that requires us to turn the head? The natural position is looking striaght forward. But if you turn your head to the side, how many of us strain the neck slightly to get the shooting eye in line with the target and sights?

And as we relax, does the pupil of the eye move out of the line of the sights? (assuming the target, front sight and rear sight remain stationary). Could somebody create a probelm for themselves by having a shooting stance that requires the head be turned too much?

I know that as I move my head whilst holding the pistol in the shooting stance, the alignment of the front and rear sight do seem to change.

Just wondering.

[Fred Mannis]

We often think of the head as being stationary and I guess it should be. But how many of us have a position that requires us to turn the head? The natural position is looking striaght forward. But if you turn your head to the side, how many of us strain the neck slightly to get the shooting eye in line with the target and sights?

A very good point. As part of my process for stance setup, I rotate my head to the right until I can feel some tension, then back off slightly. My head still tended to move a bit, but I solved my 'wandering head' problem by using an iris set at ~5-6 mm diam. Too wide too lose light/increase depth of field, but narrow enough that I could maintain my head position.

Fred

[mtds]

This morning I tried moving my hand on the grip as suggested by you gentlemen, and it did indeed correct my "natural sight alignment".

The solution seems so obvious! Now I'm asking myself how I got the idea that I needed to move in the opposite direction? I suppose I should be grateful that no one opened their reply with "Listen, knucklehead"...

I'll spend the next several sessions trying to make this new grip a habit. If I remember the process correctly, solving this problem will soon uncover another humiliating flaw in my technique, right?

Thanks again for the help!

[Steve Swartz]

Of Course!

Now, if we could only prioritize our technical flaws in the order in which fixing them would give us the greatest score increase . . .

Steve

[Benjamin]

From your original grip position, turning the gun so it is now properly aligned might have made it more or less comfortable and "natural" feeling than it was.

If you no longer have enough contact between the base of your thumb and the side of the grip, you can make a "temporary" pad to change the grip shape. I very much enjoy the soft feel of real leather grip surfaces anyway, so I usually build up my grips with leather that is sold for shoe inner soles and leave it in place forever. An alternative is the felt material that is sold in grocery stores to protect blisters on your feet, it works the same but feels different. Just cut out a piece to the right shape and stick it on the part of the grip that is stippled in the picture. That should keep the grip from rotating too far CCW in your hand. If you don't like the result, peel the attachment off and you're back where it was.