Meister or National cast WC

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:31 pm

Does anyone have any experience with Meister or National cast WC??Ernie

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:21 pm

Yes, all good.
I have been loading both 38 & 32 for a long time.
They are very hard and nice and true.
I highly recommend them.

AnonJohn · Post by **AnonJohn** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:52 am

And I've used both in .45 ACP SWC too. No complaints there either. And I got the National cheap! Meister has a great reputation on our line, but since they relocated and have been harder to get, people are expanding their views. I also like those Lasercast bullets.

John

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:14 pm

Because of the price, I got a box of the National 185 gr SWC and a box of the plated version. I haven't really checked the accuracy at 50 yd, but there is significant flash at the parting line which could reduce accuracy. Also the base edge is not as sharp/perfectly formed as I would like. I usually shoot Russell 200 gr swc sized to .4515. As always, YMMV

Fred

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:25 pm

Well, not a direct reply to the original post but it does raise (for me at least) an intersting issue: cast vs. swaged performance.

Note that the casting process is inherently less precise than the swaging process. You will always- barring a really bad swage set-up- have more round to round variability in weight, diameter, weight distribution, and surface contour with cast bullets than with swaged.

However

The difference may or may not ever show up above the "practical significance level," even in a ransom rest, especially when shot out of a short-barrelled action (5" or less) at short (25m or less) distances.

What say you all- do we assume the extra variation induced by the inferior bullets doesn't matter?

Or are we saying that the price difference makes up for the larger group size?

Maybe I should have started a new thread . . . this isn't an assault on those who choose to shoot cast bullets . . . I used to cast my own (.44) back when I had more time and less money . . .

Steve

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:28 pm

SS said

I used to cast my own (.44) back when I had more time and less money . . .

...and back when you had less thought about the dangers of exposure to lead fumes.................

SS said

What say you all- do we assume the extra variation induced by the inferior bullets doesn't matter?

Well, to read the discussions on the Bullseye-L list, where there is much concern over whether this gun or that, this ammo or that, will produce x.xx inch groups at 50 yds out of a Ransom Rest, I would say that the extra variation does matter (to most BE shooters). Can't say whether ISSF shooters pay as much attention.

Fred

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:06 pm

Heck, Fred, when I shot BE the old saying was "You could shoot gravel down the tube at 25 yards and still make a 10X!"

Never tried the gravel route- but I did exercise an awful lot more care with my 50yd loads (Nosler 185gr SJHP at precise velocities) than I did my short line loads (Star 185 HP over whatever the lightest load that would still cycle the action).

That's why I wonder if the top competitors in the 25 meter events worry about swaged vs. cast accuracy; or if the feeling is more like "gravel will do."

Steve

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:38 pm

Star swaged bullets are excellent, my favorites once loaded. If you are shooting 45 caliber, you can get Star hollow point 185 grain which are the same external shape as normal 200 grain solid SWC.

LaserCast cast bullets are just as accurate in my experience. I usually use the LaserCast because they are easier to work with in my loading press and also easier to order direct from the manufacturer. Also, the harder lead makes them more resistant to problems that might deform the Stars.

National cast bullets basically work fine but are noticeably not as accurate. For most purposes, I don't use them.

Sorry I do not have any precise comparative numbers on these. I recommend you try some of all three and post your comparison for us.

Pär · Post by **Pär** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:34 am

"You could shoot gravel down the tube at 25 yards and still make a 10X!"

That's why I wonder if the top competitors in the 25 meter events worry about swaged vs. cast accuracy; or if the feeling is more like "gravel will do."

A few weeks ago I finally did something I have wanted to do for many years, I made a model for how the pistol/ammo-systems performance influense the score. The idea is that if you know the accurancy of one ammo, and you shoot a certain score, what would that score had been if you used a ammo with different accurancy.

I have for many years had the impression that beginners tend to think that there equiment is more important than it is and that swedish national team shooters tend to think that their equipment it not very important...

The model uses Gaussian deviation for ammo/pistol and modified Gaussin (gaussian ^1.5) for shooter deviation. I do not claim that it is correct.... but I really do think that many people will get a few "Aha's" when they test to adjust the values in the Excel document.

Unfortunatly, it is in swedish right now, but if you are intrested I can try to translate to english.

http://web.telia.com/~u43006832/
spridning 051213.zip

It works for targets with circular rings.

It also shows the effect of non perferfect adjusted sights

TargetTalk

Meister or National cast WC

Meister or National cast WC

Meister WC

2nd Both