TargetTalk

OK Folks,
I am about to bite the bullet (pardon the pun). I am looking at a Pardini HP in .32S&W. So tell me what are your favorite loads, bullet, primer, powder combos? It appears if one wishes to compete in International CF, it will most likely be in .32 S&W. And with an auto-loader (I can't thumb a wheel-gun fast enough). If anyone has any strong feelings about a brand of gun I'd appreciate that information as well. I have never shot or reloaded this caliber (first time for everything), the closest of course was a .38 Special. Any information will be greatfully appreciated. I hope that one and all have a wonderful Christmas, and a Happy and Healthy New Year. :-)
Thanks,
Neil

Addendum.......I noticed that wadcutters for this round come in .312, .313.and .314 sized bullets, what would be the correct size to use?? NF

Neil Foster wrote:It appears if one wishes to compete in International CF, it will most likely be in .32 S&W. And with an auto-loader (I can't thumb a wheel-gun fast enough).

I would not disagree with your feelings that a 32 semi-auto is the way to go but am confused by your comments on the speed of cocking a revolver.

As the ISSF C/F match is all single shots, that is definitely not an issue.

You'll need to have your barel slugd to determine the best bullet diameter.

Echoing David, the "Rapid Fire" or Duel stage is one shot every ten seconds. Are you sure you can't move your thumb that fast?:-)

Richard

My bad fellas............
I should have added that I might on occasion use it in regular bullseye matches. That is what I alluded to in saying "thumbing the revolver". Sorry about that gaff. My brain was working faster than the fingers, or was it that my fingers were working faster than the brain?? :-) On that subject do you know of many folks who use a revolver in ISSF CF matches?
Neil

Neil,

I may be in the minority, but I prefer to use a revolver in the Int'l CF event. For the slow fire portion, you have 6 minutes for every five shot string. During each series in the rapid fire portion (which used to be called "duel"), the target is shown 5 times, each time for 3 seconds, and is edged for 7 seconds between each appearance. One shot is fired during each appearance. You must lower the gun between each appearance, and 7 seconds is plenty of time to cock a revolver. You may use either hand. I find that cocking a revolver gives me something to do between shots; 7 seconds seems like a long time when you shoot a semi-auto.

I now shoot a Manhurin revolver in 32 S&W L WC, but I previously used a Unique 32U. My favority hand load is 1.8 gr HP38 under a Hornady 90 GR HBWC. It's a .314 dia swaged bullet. (By the way, I also prefer Hornady's 38 HBWC when loading 38 spl WC.) As Richard said, you should slug the barrel of whatever you buy, so your mileage may vary.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you don't have to spring for an expensive 32 semi-auto to shoot the Int'l CF match; you can do quite well starting out with a Smith & Wesson Model 14 revolver for a lot less money and find out whether you like the match or not. (It's my favorite event!)

Lee

Lee Jr wrote:For the slow fire portion, you have 6 minutes for every five shot string.

Try not to take 6 minutes ;^) You only have 5 minutes under rule 8.6.4.9.

The time limit was reduced from 6 minutes in January 2001.

Lee,
I am curious, why the .32?? The Model 14 is not available as a new gun, and according to S&W's web site they no longer produce a .32 target revolver. Why not a .38 Special with a HBWC? There are still some fine target guns out there in this caliber. On your Model 14 what bbl. length are you using?. You make a good point on the cost of the gun. The reason I mention the .38, is I already reload this caliber, brass and bullets are easy to come by.
Thanks for your feedback.
Neil

For CF event (in my Pardini HP) I use 98grs. Lapua or H&N HBWC(.314), 1.5-1.6grs. VV310, Remington primers and just a minor tapered crimp. When I shoot military rapidfire (it's also a national program here) I use 83grs. Lapua/H&N HBWC and 1.4-1.5grs. VV310 for lesser recoil. I think I have great benefit of using the Pardini .32 for the CF event as I also shoot standard and sportpistol (with Pardini .22) I will have the same triggerfeel, same sights, same weight/balance, same grip (I modify and work on 1 grip and change this between .22 and .32). I then can train a lot with the .22 and have a bigger effect on my CF shooting then the case will be if I used a revolver................. I think.

CHRISTMAS Geetings and a happy new year from Tor

I believe that the Model 14 Smith is the 38spl (K-38). The Model 16 was in 32L (K-32), with the last guns in 32 Mag.

(I use a Model 14 in Distinguished Revolver.)

Neil:

I agree with Tor - I use and recommend the same .32 loads for the Pardini HP as he described.

However, one suggestion I have is to avoid Speer 98 grain bullets. I purchased 2000 of them and have found significant differences in diameter sizes which I believe accounts for the severe keyholing I'm seeing at 50 feet. The problem disappears when I reload using Lapua bullets or when I just shoot commerical ammo like Lapua, Fiocchi and Federal.

Regarding revolver vs. autoloader for the CF match - a revolver is a fine tool for the match but I found that the movement necessary to use my right thumb (shooting hand) to recock my SW14 changed my grip and therefore required readjustment. 7 seconds goes by real fast when you are trying to reestablish your grip to maintain uniformity.

Depending on the size of your hands, the revolver you use and the grips you have on it, you may not have the same problem. Either way, if you use your non shooting hand to recock - it's not an issue.

THe fact that the Pardini HP was designed specifically for the CF and military RF matches makes it a very difficult gun to beat. I've had my HP for about three months now and am extremely pleased with it.

F. Paul

Neil Foster wrote: On that subject do you know of many folks who use a revolver in ISSF CF matches?
Neil

I and most of my friends shoot S&W Model 14's for both ISSF Center Fire and NRA Distinguished Revolver. I'm mainly a Bullseye shooter, and only get to two-three ISSF matches per year.

Neil,

I started out in the CF event many years ago using the S&W Model 14 (K38) using 38 HBWC. You'll want to get one with a 6" barrel (max length allowed). There are plenty older model 14's to be found for as cheap as $200. You can still buy Morini or (I think) Nill grips for them. The rear sight is not the greatest, but you can replace the blade with one from Weigand Combat (jackweigand.com), or even go for a Bo-Mar or Aritocrat rib. The single action letoff on most S&W's is suberb right out of the box.

Some folks use the Smith model 52 for this event as well. It's a great gun, but I think the lock time/long hammer fall is tough to master. I ended up going the 32 route seeking less recoil, but it's a pain in the butt chasing brass from the semi-autos. I lucked into finding a mint Manhurin 32 revolver in the last year and I think it's just awesome to shoot and no chasing brass anymore. It's too bad Smith quit making the K32/model 16 (don't try to use the 32 mag model 16; they just won't shoot the 32 S&W LWC). Older K32's go for a small fortune.

Lee

Tor wrote:For CF event (in my Pardini HP) I use 98grs. Lapua or H&N HBWC(.314), 1.5-1.6grs. VV310, Remington primers and just a minor tapered crimp. When I shoot military rapidfire (it's also a national program here) I use 83grs. Lapua/H&N HBWC and 1.4-1.5grs. VV310 for lesser recoil. I think I have great benefit of using the Pardini .32 for the CF event as I also shoot standard and sportpistol (with Pardini .22) I will have the same triggerfeel, same sights, same weight/balance, same grip (I modify and work on 1 grip and change this between .22 and .32). I then can train a lot with the .22 and have a bigger effect on my CF shooting then the case will be if I used a revolver................. I think.

CHRISTMAS Geetings and a happy new year from Tor

Merry Christmas to you to Tor and to everyone else on this excellent board. :-)

Just a question regarding H&N bullets, has anyone tried their copper plated HBWC bullets? Pros and cons compared to standard lubricated bullets?

/Axel

I will vote for a Manurhin .38 revolver, because the case catcher works and there are no feeding problems.

Another advantage with a revolver during the duelling stage is the fact you can recock the action and momentarily relieve pressure off your shooting arm. Having a sore shooting shoulder and shooting 5 international events in one day, every bit helps.

Does anyone in the USA stock/sell the Manhurin revolver??
Neil

Rob wrote:Another advantage with a revolver during the duelling stage is the fact you can recock the action and momentarily relieve pressure off your shooting arm. Having a sore shooting shoulder and shooting 5 international events in one day, every bit helps.

Good point but why couldnt you do the same thing with an autoloader?? While you may not have to recock it, couldnt you use your non shooting hand to adjust the grip and obtain the same benefit if you felt it was advantageous to do so??

Rob wrote:Another advantage with a revolver during the duelling stage is the fact you can recock the action and momentarily relieve pressure off your shooting arm. Having a sore shooting shoulder and shooting 5 international events in one day, every bit helps.

What do the ISSF rules says about relaxing your arm between duel shots? My understanding, years ago, is that it was permissible to completely relax the shooting arm between shots (let it hang straight down) as long as you were at or below the 45 degree position when the target began to turn (or the green light came on).

8.6.4.7.3.4 doesn't seem to completely address this issue.

What say you, David Levene?

Stan

IPshooter wrote:What do the ISSF rules says about relaxing your arm between duel shots? My understanding, years ago, is that it was permissible to completely relax the shooting arm between shots (let it hang straight down) as long as you were at or below the 45 degree position when the target began to turn (or the green light came on).

8.6.4.7.3.4 doesn't seem to completely address this issue.

Before looking at the question in detail Stan, I presume that you mean 8.6.4.9.3.4. There hasn't been a rule 8.6.4.7.3.4 since the 2001 4th Printing.

8.6.4.9.3.4 does say "Before each shot the shooter must lower his arm and adopt the READY position".

OK, so you must be in the READY position a short time, say 1 second, before the targets face. The other important thing that this rule does though is to refer us to 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3.

8.6.1.2 says "Before and during the series, including while chambering a
cartridge, or checking or cocking a pistol or revolver, the pistol must always be kept pointing down range and within the target backstop area before returning to the READY position for the next shot, or while awaiting the command “UNLOAD”."

Under this rule, the pistol must be pointing down range until you return it to the READY position.

8.6.1.3 contains the sentance "In the READY position, the shooter's arm must point downward at an angle of not greater than 45 degrees from the
vertical, but must not be pointed at the ground within the forward edge of the firing point."

I think we must also consider the first sentance of 8.2.5.1 "When the pistol is out of its case, the pistol must always be pointed in a safe direction."

Taking all of the above into account, with reference to the idea of letting the arm hang straight down between shots my suggestion would be "don't even think about it". Providing that the pistol stayed pointing down range I can think of no reason not to bend the elbow and support the pistol with the non-shooting hand for a couple of seconds.

Just as a parting thought, rule 8.9.6.8 says "If a shooter handles a pistol in a dangerous manner or violates any safety rules, the shooter may be disqualified by the Jury."

I ran into "one" competetor who mimicked a revolver shooter with his GSP-32 . He said it was legal to regrasp the weapon using both hands and then assuming the ready position before the targets turned. He was the only person I saw doing this in centerfire and womans sport. This was in the mid-late 90's and I believe he said it was a UIT regulation. He was a great competitor and good friend, so no one questioned his interpitation of the ruling. But like I say, he was the only one I saw doing it.......Off topic... What did get me upset at certain regional club matches was shooters bringing the pistol up early, lowering the pistol about 12" in the ready position and month after month claiming theres 10 hits on a target when you can only find 9! Oh yeah, and pluging all my shots when there clearly in! Sorry , I had to get that off my chest. Happy Boxing Day