TargetTalk

Now I know this is a big topic and not ideally suited to solving the problems over the internet - and I will be seeing my grip maker.

Following on from the problems with sight picture - which I also experience. I have a fe other questions;

How tight should the grip be ? My palm shelf is just loosely up against my palm and I have a feeling it's too loose. Also should the hand be 'snug' between the palmshelf and top part (between thumb and first finger). I suspect I had it loose because I have too much contact in the main part of my palm and that seems to cause problems if it's too tight.

Like I said I will see someone about the grip shortly but I can try some small (non permanent) modifications at home in between times.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote: How tight should the grip be ?

Like I said I will see someone about the grip shortly but I can try some small (non permanent) modifications at home in between times.
Rob.

Rob,

This is a tough question that I have been wondering about also. For one thing, hand size (volume) varies during the day and from day to day. Weather can have a big effect on this. While this problem is most evident with a FP grip, it is a factor with any anatomical grip. I don't like the idea of continually readjusting the palm shelf to compensate, so I have a couple of rules-of-thumb (rules-of-palm??) that I use. I am throwing them out for discussion, and hope to be enlightened by the responses.

First, I feel the grip needs to be shaped so that whatever pressure your hand exerts on it is almost entirely front to back, i.e. no lateral pressures. This needs to be true even when you (inadvertently) make slight changes in grip pressure - these should not cause lateral movement.

Second, you should be able to apply front to back pressure without feeling a lot of upwards pressure from the palm shelf. If the palm shelf is too tight, then an inadvertent increase in gripping pressure will cause the hand thickness to increase slightly, which will exert a downwards force on the palm shelf, i.e. on the right side of the grip (for right-handers), again a lateral pressure. And the palm shelf adjustment needs to be made when your hand is at its largest volume, unless you want to constantly be readjusting it as your hand size changes.

Third, the palm shelf angle (front to back) is important. I like to adjust the angle so that whatever pressure is exerted by the palm shelf exists along the entire length of the hand, not just at the rear or front. This may require some shaping of the palm shelf, which (on AP, SP, CF or RF) can only be done front to back, not side to side.

All the above pertains to grip fit, but of course there is also the issue of having the gun point properly for you. On some guns (e.g. Steyr) you can adjust the fit, and then deal with the pointability by using the built-in adjustment screws. On others (e.g. Morini electronic), you need to consider pointability as part of the grip fit equation.

The final step, as Don Nygord advocated, is to move the trigger so that it is in the optimal position for a smooth straight-back pull. This, of course, assumes your gun has an adjustable trigger blade. If not, then all the above is even more complicated.

I have done a lot of grip work and gradually come up with these concepts, and they are continually evolving - I am not claiming to have any answers here. But, to get back to your original post, I would suggest that you just go ahead and work on your own grips, because that's how you learn. Almost nothing you do will be "permanent", as long as you have access to putty (and don't care what your grip looks like).

HTH,
FredB

Fred,
Don't worry I hack about my grips, but I like to know I'm moving in the right direction. I have literally just thinned down the palm swell in my grip and padded up the shelf - mine is custom made so I can't adjust the palmshelf. It was 'mail order' custom so don't think I'm messing up what was done with me in the room.

Anyway now off to see what it shoots like :-)

Rob.

Fred wrote: First, I feel the grip needs to be shaped so that whatever pressure your hand exerts on it is almost entirely front to back, i.e. no lateral pressures. This needs to be true even when you (inadvertently) make slight changes in grip pressure - these should not cause lateral movement.

If you don't mind, I have some questions about your comment:
1) How do you feel the pression in fingers while in position?
2) Do you use third phalanx to make pression or leave them loose?
3) The second phalanx are perfectly perpendicular with the gun/barrel?
4) Do you feel the fingers are "rolling in the grip" (it would make a fist if the grip wasn't there) or kind of "waving good bye" (with the second phalanxs trying to touch the palm shelf without bending the third phalanx)?

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm fighting against my grip for quite a bit and really need help. Thanks.

Mcmoura,

Before I respond to your questions, please note that I posted the above comments as "food for thought" - I do not feel I am an "expert", but rather someone searching for a better way. That said, I will try to be as helpful as I can.

mcmoura wrote: 1) How do you feel the pression in fingers while in position?
When you hold the pistol in your normal shooting position, you can intentionally tighten and loosen the gripping force of your hand. By paying close attention to the sensations you can feel where the pressure points are.

2) Do you use third phalanx to make pression or leave them loose?
Generally expert pistol shooters advise against applying much pressure with the third phalanges (finger tips). I just try to make sure that the majority of pressure is exerted by the second (middle) phalanges straight back.

3) The second phalanx are perfectly perpendicular with the gun/barrel?
Yes, that's what I try to do when gripping, and when working on a grip I try to make those surfaces perpendicular.

4) Do you feel the fingers are "rolling in the grip" (it would make a fist if the grip wasn't there) or kind of "waving good bye" (with the second phalanxs trying to touch the palm shelf without bending the third phalanx)?
Sorry, but I do not understand this question. Perhaps you could rephrase it?

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm fighting against my grip for quite a bit and really need help. Thanks.
That feeling of "fighting against my grip" is probably why I have spent so much time working on my grips. A grip can definitely be improved to be more "friendly" - the trick is knowing when to stop improving and start training.

I hope this helps answer your questions.

FredB

Just a bit of an update since I saw the grip maker yesterday and he did a fair amount on it. Mostly however it was removing wood around the thumb area so it's not pressing into the grip. He also took a fair amount off where the fingertips press into the side of the grip (i.e. where they did but shouldn't). I shot a couple of 10 shot strings before he finished it off and it certainly felt much better. Importantly now I know how to do likewise on my other new grip.

I asked him about the palm shelf and he said it was fine as it was.

Rob.