TargetTalk

Gang:


I'm trying to work out some kinks in my .32 reloads and think I should start by ruling out light charges as a cause of the severe keyholing I'm seeing at 50 feet. The keyholing is occurring about once in every 10-15 rounds. I swear I can feel a difference in either the recoil or the sound when the round producing the keyholing goes bang. That's why a powder problem is at the top of my list of things to check.

Has anyone encountered any metering problems when feeding VVN310 or VVN320 through a Dillon powder measure? I'm using a Square Deal B equipped with the extra small powder charge bar.

The gun (Pardini HP) shoots EVERYONE else's reloaded ammo and all commerical ammo without a hitch or a hiccup.

Here's the complete recipe in case any of you can spot the trouble maker:

Starline brass
Winchester primers
1.5 grains of VVN310
Speer 98 grain HBWC heads
Crimp to .332


This recipe is one recommended by Vihtavouri

Thanks in advance to the brain trust out there.

F. Paul in Denver

I would start with a chronograph- this may indicate a change in the powder drop- Greg

Paul:

Your load is almost identical to the one I use in my Hammerli- except I have used both CCI and Winchester primers, and have loaded down to 1.3 grains.

After experiencing similar issues on my XL 650, I noted two things: first, the primer pockets were *really* deep on my Starline, and the Winchester primers seemed to need a *really* snug fit (not as much of a problem with CCI); and, I would get an occasional 1.1 grain drop followed by a 1.5 drop.

I started tapping the drop tube area twice sharply with a small wrench, and this went away . . . but the keyholing never did.

Still got about 1 out of 50 or so with a really obvious crescent mark in the target. Finally just bought a case of Lapua.

Sorry.

Steve

I see the same problem!

1.2-1.3 VV N310 with a 98 or 100 gr is the charge recommended to me by the guy who sold me the Pardini, and 1 or 2 in every box of 50 was a squib load, I took to weighing charges and found that squib was 0.6gr or something like that and sure enough I can feel it then I scope it and its a 5 at 6:00.

I too use the extra-small powder measure on the square deal B and I think the dynamics of dropping such a tiny charge are the problem. Maybe I need to try TrailBoss powder :)

With the 90 Hornaday I use 1.5gr and have not seen much of that problem. 1.7gr with the 83 Lapua works fine too.

Next issue.

I see some near-keyholing, which I call Yaw, (but I don't know if that is the correct term), the bullet is wobbling in flight and the hole is half round and half jagged. I do not see this with 83 or 98 gr lapuas or the H&N I do see it with Speer, Hornady and Meister. Must be an american thing.

Next issue

With Speer 98 gr HBWC I saw some wild flyers, like a frame hit, or a miss at 2:00 or anywhere else and the hole is neither a keyhole or round hole, but rather a round hole with an appendage. I think the skirt is splitting and the bullet is flying with a peice of skirt waving out to the side. I have only seen that once in over 1000 Hornadys, but I saw about 1 in 20 or so with the Speers. Have not yet seen it with Lapua but I haven't shot that many and if it is what I think it is it won't happen with DEWC.

I use the Hornadys the most because I have a reliable supply of them at Midway, and the charge is reliable. I don't use the speers and I am saving my stash of Lapua's and H&N's for big matches until I find a reliable supply of them.

Poole

in a firearm ammunition cartridge, the "head" is the place where the "headstamp" is located, the other end is called a "bullet".

:)

Poole

32swl need almost no crimp.

Steve,

Of course, I made sure the Lapua ammo got here at least a week before the gun arrived. And that stuff shoots magnificently !

But, at more than .50 cents a round, it ought to. I'm gonna save the premium stuff for the 50 yard BE line and the big matches. What I really want is a round I can depend on for practice and the occasional league shoot at 25 meters.

The errant rounds I have seen are usually in the 3-2-1 rings and about half of them are full broadside hits. The other have less but still very noticeable keyholing.

Bill:

Last night, my frend gave me some ammo loaded with Trail Boss and they shot just fine. He reports no problems with metering this powder either. Stuff smells good too!

Fiocchi worked beautifully as well - one hole group of nine rounds in the ten ring. The tenth was very close by in the 9 ring. Nothing like good ammo to boost confidence and nothing like bad ammo to destroy it.

I have also heard from another shooter that the "Pardini HP hates the Speer 98 grain bullet" I value his opinion highly so I think I will try some other bullets as part of the problem solving process.


Magyar,

Can you be more specific as to "almost no crimp" I'm using .332 as recommended by VVN/Lapua.


Thanks you guys - I maynot have the problem licked yet but I sure feel like I've got some great resources out there helping me out.


F. Paul in Denver

Hi, Paul,

Nice to see you are back from overseas.

My suggestion, which we do here Downunder, is to have 1.5+gr .
We use WST Winchester powder, with 98gr hollow base, waxed projectiles,
slightly crimped.
Speed is 670 - 680f/sec.
We use a size 312 projectiles.

What I suggest - when you load your powder, tap it down in the holder, and put it onto a measuring scale, - each one of your load, - for a test run.
If you find it is still doing the same, try to go up to 1.6 with the same powder. This should make an improvement.
(However, remember there could be contamination in the powder, or it is getting very old)
Good luck, and let me know how it goers.
Alex L

(Greetings from Liz, too!!!)

Back when I used to shoot Service Unrestricted with an S&W Model 16, I used 0.9 grains of WST for 25 yards and closer. Starline or Lapua brass. I always hand primed (with Federal) and used a manual powder thrower. Those charge bar things just aren't reliable at very low charges. The other benefit if you are doing them manually, once you have thrown all the powder, you can visually inspect from above, if it's off by a significant amount, you will be able to see that.

I have had really good luck with the Hornady bullets out to 25 meters. I use 1.5 Bullseye out of my Walther. .32's must be a little picky, because I have seen some consistent keyholes with Lapua factory ammo out of a friends Walther at 25 meters. As an earlier poster noted, try to hand weigh some charges and see if that helps. If not, it is either the bullets or you may need to try another powder. I tried 5 different popular powders, and the bullseye was clearly the winner out of my gun/bullet combo. best luck

dhurt wrote:As an earlier poster noted, try to hand weigh some charges and see if that helps.

Several years ago a friend of mine tested several powder throwers and reloading scales for consistency under laboratory conditions.

In most cases the rotary throwers were more consistent than the scales, with bar type throwers following far behind.

I know that things have moved on since then but don't just assume that scales are going to be consistent. We are trying to weigh charges to within a tenth of a grain, that's a minute difference but quite a high percentage when talking about .32.

Are the projectiles cast or swaged?
We've had some shooters with similar problems which is traced to a poor base on the projectile which is a couple of thou' smaller than the front of the projectile.
This allows the pressure to push past the base and start escaping from the barrel before the projectile is completely out of the barrel. (At least that's the theory!) This creates a wobble which shows up on the target as hole that looks as if the projectile is starting to tumble. Interestingly it does not appear to alter the accuracy of the shot as this hole is generally within the main group.

Gang,

Thanks to each and everyone for all the great suggestions. As some of you may already know, I posted this same question on the Bullseye listserve.

Anyway, the various suggestions I have received so far suggest one of two theories:

The first is that the Speer 98 grain bullet is to blame. The second relates to inconsistent powder charges and more specifically, many of you have reported problems metering small amounts (1.5 grains) of many
powders out of Dillon powder measures.

You have given me some great ideas and I think plenty of options. I think I will start by trying a different bullet - like the Lapua 98 grain which is a proven performer and see if that doesnt clear up the problem. If it doesnt, I ‘ll start looking closely at the powder measure’s performance to see if I can isolate the problem.

By the way Colin, the Speer bullet I’ve been using is a swaged HBWC. The Lapua brand is also a swaged HBWC. There are alot of people who believe as you do that the Speer bullet is the problem.

Thanks again to brain trust out there for your time and valuable counsel. I’ll let you all know how this turns out.

F. Paul in Denver

I too notice when my wife shoots her .32 about 1 in every 10-15 sounds light. I've been using PB because it seems to meter more consistant. Now that ColinC mentioned it. I do notice when putting the Speer 98gr head on the empty case, some go on tight and some I can push all the way down flush. I use Remmington cases and Redding dies on my Dillon 550. I'll be curious to see if the bullet is thinner or smaller in dia. or my cases are getting thin. My HP and her 280 still shoot nice holes at 25 yds. and don't seem to shoot low when we hear an "off" sounding shot. I'd still like to solve this problem. Rob